Ottawa Divorce .com Forums


User CP

New posts

Advertising

  Ottawa Divorce .com Forums > Main Category > Divorce & Family Law

Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 08-29-2018, 01:38 PM
imadad imadad is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 18
imadad is on a distinguished road
Default Questions about RESP/CS - please help !

Hello all Ė I am new here but not new to the divorce game !

Sorry in advance for the long post but I want to try and get as much info out there as possible.

I have been divorced since 2008, separated since 2003, and have an 18 year old son who is going off to college this weekend (he is staying in residence).

We have a Ďvery bad for meí separation agreement that I was fine with when I signed it back in 2003 but I didnít have the foresight to see how it would affect me in the future. If we could only go back in time right ?

I have faithfully paid the required child support along with 50% of any extra expenses and have contributed every month to a RESP.

At the time the RESP payments were set up (2004), it was in my and my exís name but somewhere along the line it must have been changed to her name only. I honestly donít remember when that happened but in our agreement there is a clause that says our sons RESP must be in her name. Now I am pretty sure we had an RESP set up before we split which I think this clause was put in for but I really donít know which account all the money I put in went to as I donít have any access to it at all. I did go to the bank but they could not legally give me any information.

So now the RESP has enough to cover 85% of 3 years of school expenses, including residence and a food plan. His program is a 4 year co-op program but one full calendar year is comprised solely of work terms so there are no fees involved.

Is it not reasonable to assume that the RESP would be used to the full extent to pay the school fees ?

And since that also covers the residence and meal plan then I would not have to pay CS while he is in school ?

My ex has always been difficult to work with and has always had it out for me since we split.

So she is saying that 1/3 of the costs will be covered by the RESP, 1/3 by her and 1/3 by me. If we went by this then there would be about $25000 left in the RESP once he is done school, does this make any sense at all ?

Where does that money go if its not used, back to her because its in her name or back to me since the money was put in by me ?

Now she has already paid the full amount of the first yearís fees with RESP funds so do I have any ground to stand on to not pay 1/3 out of my pocket or pay CS ?

Any help or advise from someone who was or is in a similar situation would be great.

I do have a lawyer that I went to see for a consultation last month that I could go to but I was really hoping to not have to get a lawyer involved.

I was really hoping to be able to ride out the last few years of dealing with her without getting into debt but I am not feeling good about the chances.

TIA !!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-29-2018, 02:11 PM
rockscan rockscan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,805
rockscan will become famous soon enough
Default

If you have proof you paid into the RESP (bank transfers that show it going to the account) then you can argue that you are joint owner of the funds.

If that is successful then the cost paid would be broken down like this: OSAP (if applicable) awards grants which are subtracted from the tuition cost, then 1/3 the costs are the child and the remaining 2/3 apportioned to the parents LESS the RESP contribution and the tax deduction. You would pay child support the months the kid lives at home which can be paid in full for four months or averaged out over a year.

If the RESP, thanks to your contributions, is enough to cover the costs then that should be used in full.

Your problem may be in how your payments were applied. Did you pay cs + RESP monthly amount to her and expect her to put it in the account? If yes then you can argue she mismanaged those funds and you overpaid. If you can track it directly then that is your contribution regardless of the agreement. You have paid into it and it should be either applied or paid back to you.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-29-2018, 02:17 PM
rockscan rockscan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,805
rockscan will become famous soon enough
Default

I should add that all the other stuff is irrelevant and you should let that go.

You can simply respond that you have contributed $X to the RESP and have proof of those contributions which you expect to be applied to your portion of the education costs either jointly with her share or towards your portion of the expense. If she disagrees with this then you will simply consider that RESP contribution as an overpayment of child support and you will consider that your share of his school expenses.

I would also send copies of the contributions if they directly show the money going into the RESP.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-29-2018, 02:47 PM
imadad imadad is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 18
imadad is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockscan View Post
If you have proof you paid into the RESP (bank transfers that show it going to the account) then you can argue that you are joint owner of the funds.

If that is successful then the cost paid would be broken down like this: OSAP (if applicable) awards grants which are subtracted from the tuition cost, then 1/3 the costs are the child and the remaining 2/3 apportioned to the parents LESS the RESP contribution and the tax deduction. You would pay child support the months the kid lives at home which can be paid in full for four months or averaged out over a year.

If the RESP, thanks to your contributions, is enough to cover the costs then that should be used in full.

Your problem may be in how your payments were applied. Did you pay cs + RESP monthly amount to her and expect her to put it in the account? If yes then you can argue she mismanaged those funds and you overpaid. If you can track it directly then that is your contribution regardless of the agreement. You have paid into it and it should be either applied or paid back to you.
Thanks rockscan - I paid cs directly to her and the RESP donations were an automatic contribution every month directly from my bank account to the bank so they are 100% trackable.

So you are saying I have good legal ground to stand on to try to get her to use the RESP funds first before spending any out of pocket correct ?

I know she is going to fight me tooth and nail on this so am I going to have to get a lawyer involved or can I go in front of family court myself to try and work this out ?

Sorry if that sounds newbish but I have absolutely no knowledge or experience with how all of this works.

And to your other post, I have let most of the bad stuff go and realize it is just a consequence of me being stupid at the beginning of it all. Its just that I could only take the abuse for so long and really feel that I have to take a stand on this.

I mean in the past she has made me pay 1/2 for things such as a $10 keychain that my son wanted to bring with him on a class trip. She said it was an extra expense because it was school related. Really, you feel the need to charge me $5 ?? LOL

Anyway, I appreciate your help here !
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-29-2018, 03:27 PM
rockscan rockscan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,805
rockscan will become famous soon enough
Default

First, Im not a lawyer so my info is gleaned from my husbands case and research. My husband is currently going through a fight for post secondary with his ex.

Second, your contributions to the RESP are not donations. Stop calling them that.

The next step for your case is your ex would have to file a motion for the expenses and you would go through the process. At which point it would be shown that she has accepted money from you in the RESP and is attempting to double dip. If you can get a statement showing all those contributions then get that.

Do you have proof of how much $ is in the RESP?

Did she send you bills/receipts for school?

Are you in a maintenance enforcement program like FRO or MEP?

What is the comparison of incomes or even what is her income?

Has your son applied for any loans or anything? Do you know if he got a grant at all or scholarships?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-29-2018, 05:36 PM
imadad imadad is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 18
imadad is on a distinguished road
Default

Thanks rockscan - I realize that you are not a lawyer but appreciate your knowledge and experience.

To answer your questions -
Do you have proof of how much $ is in the RESP? - No but she sent me a text after she had done a withdrawal and told me how much was in there at the time

Did she send you bills/receipts for school? - no but would you believe that she just sent me a bill that is due tomorrow for $2000 and said that I have to pay it so that our son can go to school

Are you in a maintenance enforcement program like FRO or MEP? - no, I don't even know what they are

What is the comparison of incomes or even what is her income? - I have no idea what her exact income is but I am assuming that it is at least equivalent to mine if not higher

Has your son applied for any loans or anything? Do you know if he got a grant at all or scholarships? - not to my knowledge

I cant believe she has sprung that bill on me at this stage - just another one of her games that unfortunately could have an adverse affect on our son.

So as far as the process goes - do I just let her know that I am expecting her to use the RESP funds to cover all of the first year expenses and that I wont be paying any out of pocket which also includes cs payments ?

I do have an appointment scheduled with a lawyer on Tuesday morning which I can cancel if I don't really need to use her.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-29-2018, 06:23 PM
rockscan rockscan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,805
rockscan will become famous soon enough
Default

I would still meet with the lawyer but in the meantime I would send her the following:

Dear X,

Thank you for this information. I will require the following additional information for the calculation of expenses in accordance with the law.

Please send me the following immediately:

1. Proof of funds in the RESP. As I have contributed $xxxx since DATE to the RESP, I anticipate that the total funds in the file are at least that amount plus the Government grant amount.

2. Proof of all expenses via a statement of account or receipt from the school. You may also include proof of payment for his books and other supplies.

3. Proof of your income for calculation purposes as per the Federal Child Support Guidelines. We were supposed to be exchanging this information annually for proper calculation of section 7 expenses however we will have to follow the legislation going forward. Either your tax forms showing income at line 150 or your notice of assessment for 2017.

4. Proof of any scholarships, grants or loans provided to SON.

I will not be paying any portion of expenses until I receive these details.

Thank you
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-29-2018, 09:53 PM
Lolita123 Lolita123 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 44
Lolita123 is on a distinguished road
Default

In order to know how much contributions and grant is in the account ... your child can contact the canada education savings program at 1-888-276-3624 and either ask himself for the information or request a statement of account .. he can also provide authorisation to release the information to you.. now you won't know how much is in the account at the moment but you will know what the FI as reported to the government as far as contributions and how much grant was paid ... to get the current balance of the account only the FI can give that information ...

Now as per the ITA the contributions belong to the subscriber ... meaning that if your ex wife is the subscriber technically all contributions belong to her ... would a court order be able to change that ? Questionable since as we know CRA many times states that the ITA myst be followed regardless of what a separation agreement states

If there are any funds left in the RESP at the end ...grant will be paid back to the government .. contributions are paid back to the subscriber (so to her) and earnings could potentially be rolled into her RRSP or paid to the subscriber and she would be taxed on that portion ...

So I guess the real question is if there is a judgement stating that you will get $X amount of money from the contributions...would the bank act on that or would they need to follow the ITA rules ...

Also do you know for the money she used was what we called an EAP which is an educational assistance payment ( grant and earnings) or a PSE post secondary educational withdrawal which is the contributions.. EAP is taxable to the beneficiary and PSE is not ..

Final thing... did you know that now that your child is in post secondary school she could technically take out ALL THE CONTRIBUTIONS from the account tax free??? Maybe you need to look into all of this quickly

I think the only thing that can be ordered for sure is if the RESP money has to be used first before any contribution from the parent is added to it ...
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-29-2018, 10:49 PM
rockscan rockscan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,805
rockscan will become famous soon enough
Default

Imadad, dont worry about the above post until you get further details and receipts.

Remember too that the onus is on her to show what you owe. She would have to provide FULL documentation for court so she can provide it to you now.

Deep breath, wait for this documentation and if she responds about how you are cheating your son (it will happen) you simple respond that you are not a bank machine, you are a father and you both owe it to him to be honest and transparent on his post secondary expenses.

Her next step to get the money would be a court filing and as scary as that sounds, she would have to disclose her income, the expenses and the resp fully if it came to that.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-30-2018, 12:27 AM
imadad imadad is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 18
imadad is on a distinguished road
Default

Thanks rockscan and Lolita123 - I have sent her an email asking for the information regarding the RESP balance and the school account records, hopefully I get something before next Tuesday.

I am still worried, as Lolita mentioned, about the funds being in her name so then they only get used for her purposes. Hopefully the fact that I contributed most of, if not all of, the money in there will work in my favour.

And I am sure she will call me all sorts of names, but no worries as long as things work out for the best !
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Back Dated Child Supoort and Other Divorce Questions Styled Divorce & Family Law 11 07-26-2011 10:05 PM
Case Conference Preparation - Questions Ontario Parenting Issues 4 01-17-2011 09:48 AM
Form 8A - Technical Questions About_Time Divorce & Family Law 1 06-15-2010 09:22 PM
Some questions about divorce laws hrobins Divorce & Family Law 6 12-25-2009 10:35 PM
Child Support Questions Yamaha_gurl Divorce & Family Law 8 04-07-2009 07:28 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:43 AM.