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Is "Custody" overblown ?

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  • Is "Custody" overblown ?

    Hi, I have 4 kids, 13, 11, 10, and 9. Spending a fortune on litigation. going broke.

    Thinking that I should give up on custody in favor of more access. I more or less trust mother to make decisions in the best interest of the children. Provided full custody will not impede me from access.

    Thoughts ?

  • #2
    While I would never be a proponent of giving up on joint custody, if you can get her to agree to shared parenting and joint custody, but with her having final say on matters, you may be able to dangle a carrot in-front of her nose.

    But if for whatever reason you agree to her having sole custody, ensure that your agreement provides that you are entitled to all education, medical records, dental records etc. and may contact and be informed by the child's professionals of all matters relating to them That way it is clearly provided in the event you ever should go to the school or try to get info from the dr.'s that you are entitled to it.

    But no, it is not otherwise overblown.

    Comment


    • #3
      If you have given up custody of your children and your children comes to you and asks "I want to live with you", "I want to get a tattoo", "I want to play soccer"
      If you response is "I'll talk it over with mom but she has final say" The child won't come to you anymore with questions.

      Relationship starts to be eroded.

      Lets say everything does work out, but then she decides to move somewhere, you go to police. First question asked is who has custody.

      Lets say you go traveling to the states or somewhere else and something happens to your child. Doctors first question. "Who has custody"

      Lets say mom dies in a car accident, and she has in her will that the child is to go and live with her sister who hates you. What happens next?

      Lets say mom dies in a car accident, and she has no will. What happens to child?

      There are so many reasons besides decision making for joint custody.

      Comment


      • #4
        If I were you, I would self-represent. You have nothing to lose anyways. Never agree to something you don't agree to because you can't afford it. You will never live it down.

        Custody is not overblown it dictates the future of you and your children's lives.... Depends on you though really.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by involveddad75 View Post
          Lets say mom dies in a car accident, and she has in her will that the child is to go and live with her sister who hates you. What happens next?
          That part of the Will would be tossed out as that clause isn't worth the paper it is printed on. The father is next of kin and a guardian. Parent A cannot Will away the rights, obligations and privileges of Parent B.

          I know, my ex has in her Will (or at least she did 6 years ago) that my daughter would go to her parents. I spoke with many lawyers whom I worked with and one I hired outside of my old firm. Each said the clause was worthless where you have a parent who is actively involved in the child's life who, notwithstanding never being the custodial parent, wants custody of the child.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by HammerDad View Post
            That part of the Will would be tossed out as that clause isn't worth the paper it is printed on...
            ...Each said the clause was worthless where you have a parent who is actively involved in the child's life who, notwithstanding never being the custodial parent, wants custody of the child.
            Thanks HammerDad. That is good to know. My ex also did this, apparently, I'm told (specify someone other than me, in her will, if she were to pass).

            I imagine it would be a lot less headache though, if one has joint custody, vs no custody. Original poster... there is no reason in this day and age (unless you have serious issues), that you should not have joint custody of your child.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by dad2bandm View Post
              Original poster... there is no reason in this day and age (unless you have serious issues), that you should not have joint custody of your child.
              Or I guess, unless, she has serious issues. lol.

              Comment


              • #8
                I was told the opposite. That the will is followed for 6 months (from date of death), after that time you can bring a motion to have it changed, but a status quo of 6 months has now been in place.

                I'm not sure if what I was told, just saying that's what I was told.

                Comment


                • #9
                  paragraph 9 of Tremblay v Tremblay , 1987 CanLII 147
                  (AB Q.B.)
                  "Likewise, and more important, a child has a right to the love,
                  care and guidance of a parent. To be denied that right by the other parent
                  without sufficient justification, such as abuse or neglect, is, in itself, a form of
                  child abuse."

                  Giving the custody to somebody else is child abuse according to the above.

                  back to the original question: Unfortunately a person who has the custody can too easily abuse it. I hoped the same as you, but after 3 years it is clear that my ex is dysfunctional as a decision maker, as her decision are aimed to destroy our relationship with d9. If this is not going to happen to you, then you are right, it doesn't matter who makes the decision.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by involveddad75 View Post
                    If you have given up custody of your children and your children comes to you and asks "I want to live with you", "I want to get a tattoo", "I want to play soccer"
                    If you response is "I'll talk it over with mom but she has final say" The child won't come to you anymore with questions.
                    If you have joint custody you don't have any more decision making power on these issues either. You certainly do not have any power over where the child lives, whether you have sole, joint, or no custody.

                    Lets say everything does work out, but then she decides to move somewhere, you go to police. First question asked is who has custody.
                    You don't go to the police, you go to a lawyer. If the child has been abducted you still have rights. A parent cannot unilaterally take a child away from a parent, even an NCP access parent.

                    Police will rarely get involved in any kind of family law issue. You need a lawyer (or self rep) to get the courts to make an order. Then the police act.

                    Lets say you go traveling to the states or somewhere else and something happens to your child. Doctors first question. "Who has custody"
                    Doctors do not need parental approval to provide necessary care. It doesn't matter if you have custody. The babysitter can take a sick child to a hospital and get the same care.

                    Lets say mom dies in a car accident, and she has in her will that the child is to go and live with her sister who hates you. What happens next?
                    According to Ontario family law, custody goes to the father.


                    There are so many reasons besides decision making for joint custody.
                    Would love to hear one.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Mess View Post
                      If you have joint custody you don't have any more decision making power on these issues either. You certainly do not have any power over where the child lives, whether you have sole, joint, or no custody.

                      You don't go to the police, you go to a lawyer. If the child has been abducted you still have rights. A parent cannot unilaterally take a child away from a parent, even an NCP access parent.

                      Police will rarely get involved in any kind of family law issue. You need a lawyer (or self rep) to get the courts to make an order. Then the police act.

                      Doctors do not need parental approval to provide necessary care. It doesn't matter if you have custody. The babysitter can take a sick child to a hospital and get the same care.

                      According to Ontario family law, custody goes to the father.


                      Would love to hear one.
                      That is why this forum is so good. There are so many differences of opinion and thats what makes this site so great.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Really, if your confident Mom will always put kids first - you probably have a point in that it's not a huge deal.

                        If you're a control freak and need to be in charge, then it might be best to seek full custody for your own personal 'deal'.

                        Given that both parents love the kid(s), and you know she'll do her best, then maybe you can leave it.

                        I would caution you however, that having full custody could potentially allow her to move half way around the world without any consideration for you.

                        If you do step back from pursuing custody - some things you may want to get written in stone in that same Order. Like changing child(s) name(s) - allowed or not? Distance allowed to move away. Similar ideas...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I would caution you however, that having full custody could potentially allow her to move half way around the world without any consideration for you.
                          Without shared custody unless there is a very good reason her reasonable desire to move away will generally be accepted (from my experience reading from cases).... and the kids will be gone.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by wretchedotis View Post
                            I would caution you however, that having full custody could potentially allow her to move half way around the world without any consideration for you.
                            You are correct in that the ex could move as far away as they want. But the kids may not.

                            A move of significant distance, likely to be found as any distance that would have a negative impact on a NCP's ability to exercise their parenting time, is a material change in circumstances. And such a move would require a) the NCP's permission or b) a court order.

                            Just because a parent has sole custody does not mean they can move anywhere with the children. Should such a parent try, the NCP can file a motion to have the children returned. Even if the CP is rich and has tons of free time on their hands, and can pay the costs to get the kids to dads regularly scheduled parenting time, they still would likely be denied.

                            See Gordon v Goertz when it comes to moving. It must be in the best interests of the child.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by HammerDad View Post
                              You are correct in that the ex could move as far away as they want. But the kids may not.

                              A move of significant distance, likely to be found as any distance that would have a negative impact on a NCP's ability to exercise their parenting time, is a material change in circumstances. And such a move would require a) the NCP's permission or b) a court order.

                              Just because a parent has sole custody does not mean they can move anywhere with the children. Should such a parent try, the NCP can file a motion to have the children returned. Even if the CP is rich and has tons of free time on their hands, and can pay the costs to get the kids to dads regularly scheduled parenting time, they still would likely be denied.

                              See Gordon v Goertz when it comes to moving. It must be in the best interests of the child.
                              Look at the vast majority of sole custody cases, it is granted unless there is something exceptional.

                              -When the mother can go somewhere to become a stay at home mom, it is granted. ( --> she becomes more available for the kids, yay)

                              -When the relationship isn't an obvious passing fancy, it is granted.
                              (mother has the right to remake her life and she has been the dominant caregiver)

                              -When the mother can go somewhere to claim to be closer to family it is granted.
                              (mother needs support which helps her with the kids and get on with her life)

                              -When the mother can go somewhere to get a significantly better job it is granted.
                              (mother needs to not live precariously and support her kids)

                              -Language Issues too are brought up
                              The best interests of the children are interlinked with their CP so saying best interests of the child is code for "best interests of the custodial parent". Access time isn't worth 2 **** in face of a move of the CP,

                              Comment

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