Ex filed Personal Bankruptcy: Has anyone had to deal w/this?

[hadenough]

This has dragged out now, for 4 years. As if Family Court weren't enough - I've had this on my plate as well. Ex and I had a business. We separated. I exchanged shares in business (50%) for him to go off Title of house. I resign through a lawyer, (Nov/07) with the Ministry etc. 2 months later (I would not find out til March of the following year) that ex has filed a personal bankruptcy - and b/c some of the business loans were jointly and severally secured, guess who got the debts landed on their lap?

Ex runs exact same business, to this day - same customers etc, just the name has changed. I have brought this to the highest level (office of the superintendent) and am still awaiting a final hearing (a discharge hearing) on the matter, not in Family Court. It is supposed to be in March but recent "restructuring" of the Courts in our jurisdiction may see that the March date is delayed. Ex is "undischarged" from his bankruptcy. If this were the States (w/all the known/proven Fraud in this matter) he'd be in Jail. But not in Canada.

I'm in a Consumer Proposal as a result of all this. A very large, unmanageable proposal which requires large monthly pymts to pay off old business debt. Note: the bulk of it was accumulated just prior to him getting arrested and removed from the house we were living in, (him in the lower level) that at the time was up for sale. He then continued on a mad gambling, spending spree in an effort to show off to the new gf (now his wife) that he was a real big shooter/successful businessman. There were several trips, tens of thousands spent shopping/gambling. I could not get off the biz fast enough and to some degree once he left (he redirected the mail that previously came to my address incl business banking statements etc) and for a time, was not aware of what he was up to. The arrest saw to it that there was a no contact order, and I didn't want to talk to him anyway.

I have to meet w/my Trustee very soon. This whole thing is fraud, everyone knows it - there's paperwork on this all over the place (to all appropriate parties). He's living the life of Riley, I'm going to hell in a handbasket. I don't want to lose my house to this fraud, and I don't want to file Personal Bankruptcy. The BS proposal is bad enough.

Has ANYONE experienced a similar situation? And if so: what did you do, how did it end? I'm at the end of my rope w/this. I attempted to get advice on a bankruptcy blog but I'm not getting any answers from people, maybe b/c I'm new on there, I don't know. I really need some advice. There were times throughout this that (on top of Family Court) I really felt fearful that I may suffer from a complete nervous breakdown. I'm 42 years old and surprisingly don't look my age but all this stress is catching up fast and it's all caused me to feel depressed, although I would say I'm "functionally" depressed. Needless to say, I do not want to live the rest of my life this way. I don't know how I fought against this for all this time, but I have and now I'm just so tired and need some advice.

[neverending]

I too had to do a consumer proposal and have been paying on it for 3 years! It was a reult of my ex choosing bankruptcy - which in turn held me liable. I was told that unless I prove him guilty (of fraudulant conduct) then there won't be much anyone will do. As the saying goes - he is innocent until proven guilty... and more times than not it costs waaaaay too much money to prove anything. I took the consumer propoal because trying to deal with my ex was.... in my case a bigger headache! I am already fighting the cs battle.. ugh!!!!
good luck with whatever it is you decide that is best for you.

[hadenough]

I'm sorry for your ordeal. I know exactly what it's like. I have proven him guilty, and still I might get screwed even worse than I am now. I've filed an opposition, the OSB is on the record against him, and even HIS trustee (who is a lying crook) has opposed him. There's volumes of proof. There has to be a way out of this. Hoping the March date happens although I don't know how that will impact my circumstances in any way.

This is an awful cloud to live under. My credit is ruined, I can't pay the CP and I would like some justice but it's not coming fast enough. I am thinking of all manner of things as a result. I am not going to pay all that money. I can't! I literally cannot. Thx for your response. I hope you are managing a lot better than I am.

[Tayken]

This has dragged out now, for 4 years. As if Family Court weren't enough - I've had this on my plate as well. Ex and I had a business. We separated. I exchanged shares in business (50%) for him to go off Title of house.

I resign through a lawyer, (Nov/07) with the Ministry etc. 2 months later (I would not find out til March of the following year) that ex has filed a personal bankruptcy - and b/c some of the business loans were jointly and severally secured, guess who got the debts landed on their lap?

What kind of company? LTD or INC?

Ex runs exact same business, to this day - same customers etc, just the name has changed. I have brought this to the highest level (office of the superintendent) and am still awaiting a final hearing (a discharge hearing) on the matter, not in Family Court.

Right place to bring it. Hopefully the agreement you reached on the business is good. If you want check out the Obrian's Forms for Separation agreements. They have a large section on how transfers of businesses should be done to avoid this type of situation. A good solicitor should be a subscriber to the service.

It is supposed to be in March but recent "restructuring" of the Courts in our jurisdiction may see that the March date is delayed. Ex is "undischarged" from his bankruptcy. If this were the States (w/all the known/proven Fraud in this matter) he'd be in Jail. But not in Canada.

Hard to say. They still apply fraud in these matters in our system. But, the finding and rules around it are difficult. The court that hears bankruptcy doesn't take to lies like the Family Court system does. So don't count out it becoming a larger problem for the other party.

I'm in a Consumer Proposal as a result of all this. A very large, unmanageable proposal which requires large monthly pymts to pay off old business debt.

These debts from the business as well as ownership of the business should have been put into your separation agreement/court order. Hard to say as it would require reading the paragraphs of the agreement around the business and what liability you still have on it.

Note: the bulk of it was accumulated just prior to him getting arrested and removed from the house we were living in, (him in the lower level) that at the time was up for sale. He then continued on a mad gambling, spending spree in an effort to show off to the new gf (now his wife) that he was a real big shooter/successful businessman. There were several trips, tens of thousands spent shopping/gambling. I could not get off the biz fast enough and to some degree once he left (he redirected the mail that previously came to my address incl business banking statements etc) and for a time, was not aware of what he was up to. The arrest saw to it that there was a no contact order, and I didn't want to talk to him anyway.

Not very relevant to bankruptcy filings.

I have to meet w/my Trustee very soon. This whole thing is fraud, everyone knows it - there's paperwork on this all over the place (to all appropriate parties). He's living the life of Riley, I'm going to hell in a handbasket. I don't want to lose my house to this fraud, and I don't want to file Personal Bankruptcy. The BS proposal is bad enough.

Basically, on transfer of the business the debts should have gone with it too. Not sure why your agreement at that time didn't cover it.

Has ANYONE experienced a similar situation? And if so: what did you do, how did it end? I'm at the end of my rope w/this. I attempted to get advice on a bankruptcy blog but I'm not getting any answers from people, maybe b/c I'm new on there, I don't know.

Probably best to retain a solicitor who is knows their stuff in bankruptcy law. This is not an easy one to answer.

I really need some advice. There were times throughout this that (on top of Family Court) I really felt fearful that I may suffer from a complete nervous breakdown. I'm 42 years old and surprisingly don't look my age but all this stress is catching up fast and it's all caused me to feel depressed, although I would say I'm "functionally" depressed. Needless to say, I do not want to live the rest of my life this way. I don't know how I fought against this for all this time, but I have and now I'm just so tired and need some advice.

If you are feeling depressed you should seek advice from your clinician on how to manage it. Complexity like this is often hard to handle in such an emotional time. Your doctor is there to help you and no one would take a negative inference against you for seeking out help for your medical needs. I encourage you to talk to your doctor. The health care system is there to help you... Not punish you.

Good Luck!
Tayken

[neverending]

stay positive (and I know it may sound crazy) I was there - maybe a slight differenc ein amounts... but I was right there.. I worried daily, had creditors call me, had my hydro cut back (not by choice), ended up losing my home, and was caring for 2 young children ALL without any child support! I truly felt like I was sinking. Debt owed with my ex was about $45,000 I did a consumer proposal and has it slashed down to $22,000 that I pay in 50 months. Ya it sucks - I basically lost all credit, and complete self worth! HOWEVER my trustee worked with my finacials and we came up with a number for repayment that worked and one that I could "somewhat" manage (however my bank account is never out of the red)... I was forced against a wall. I own a small business.. so for me I needed to find a way to repay, instead of going bankrupt myself and lose everything.
Perhaps speaking with someone to keep you level headed would be a good idea (i did that - and found it helped) Stay strong, and know your daily limit of crap you can take. Your lawyer should be working for your best interest and hopefully he/she is doing that for you. Fraud can be tricky to prove and then it all has to be disected..
don't allow yourself to break unless you are ok and have accepted everything and are ready (truly ready) to move on.
I wish you well and hope things turn your way very soon.

[WorkingDAD]

What kind of company? LTD or INC?

Right place to bring it. Hopefully the agreement you reached on the business is good. If you want check out the Obrian's Forms for Separation agreements. They have a large section on how transfers of businesses should be done to avoid this type of situation. A good solicitor should be a subscriber to the service.


Hard to say. They still apply fraud in these matters in our system. But, the finding and rules around it are difficult. The court that hears bankruptcy doesn't take to lies like the Family Court system does. So don't count out it becoming a larger problem for the other party.


These debts from the business as well as ownership of the business should have been put into your separation agreement/court order. Hard to say as it would require reading the paragraphs of the agreement around the business and what liability you still have on it.


Not very relevant to bankruptcy filings.

Tayken

Actually I have to disagree on that one. Fraud, gambling history prior bankruptcy is very relevant and should be used as main defense to "oppose discharge" and go after "conditional discharge" when person can end up being bankrupt and still own 99% of dept to it's creditor.

at least that what I have learn since I have to deal with it.
go to the library and get a book (or buy it for $400)
Title: Bankruptcy, insolvency and family law
Author: Klotz, Robert A.;Klotz, Robert A. Bankruptcy and family law.

it's big and expensive. I am reading it now. In my case I will oppose attempt to wipe out cost order and base on what I read (and I actually had chance to talk with author of that book) I am filling quite confident on result (much more than on custody trial). Keep in mind I will have chance to cross-examine my ex in bankruptcy court as biggest creditor It's going to be fun (no pressure in comparison with family court). It's not like it what I want to do but have to.

here some from the book to give you an idea.

The following principles have been cited to summarize the various conflicting interests that must be reconciled at the discharge hearing:

i) In considering the question of discharge, the Court must have regard
not only to the interests of the bankrupt and his creditors, but also to
the interests of the public.

ii) The Legislature has always recognized the interest that the State has
in a debtor being released from the overwhelming pressure of his debts,
and that it is undesirable that a citizen should be so weighed down by
his debts as to be incapable of performing the ordinary duties of citizenship.

iii) One of the objects of the BIA is to enable an honest debtor, who had
been unfortunate in business, to secure a discharge so he might make
a new start.

iv) The bankruptcy courts should not be converted into a sort of clearinghouse for the liquidation of debts irrespective of the circumstances under which they were created.

v) The success or failure of any bankruptcy system depends upon the administration of the discharge provisions of the Act.

vi The Court is not to be regarded as a sort of charitable institution.

vii) It is incumbent upon the court to guard against laxity in granting discharges so as not to offend against commercial morality. It is nevertheless
the duty of the court to administer the BIA in such a way as to assist honest debtors who have been unfortunate.

viii) Discharge is not a matter of right.

[Tayken]

Actually I have to disagree on that one. Fraud, gambling history prior bankruptcy is very relevant and should be used as main defense to "oppose discharge" and go after "conditional discharge" when person can end up being bankrupt and still own 99% of dept to it's creditor.

It all boils down to cogent and relevant evidence. Allegations are weighted harder in the system here. You can't simply make statements usually - they have to be backed up with tangible evidence.

Probability on the balance is weighted on a very hard scale in these matters. So if you have evidence to the fact (gambling, fraud, etc...). Fraud itself is a criminal offense under the CCC so it is weighted as such... Beyond reasonable doubt.

Good Luck!
Tayken

[hadenough]

WorkingDad, I'd like more info on that book. Tayken: many thanks for your brilliant replies to so many of us on here. When I say I have proof: I mean I've got proof. Photos from Facebook of world travels, new cars, financial disclosure from Family Court that was given to Trustee and OSB. Literally, a mountain of proof and you're right - the bs doesn't fly as freely in B-court as it does in Family Court where it seems (to me) to be quite acceptable (?!?).

Our BIA laws are very lax in Canada. He can choose to stay undischarged indefinitely. He's got everything in his wife's name and he works and lives it up, shops/spends/travels/short pays CS (from our order). Currently he (they) are RENOVATING. The trustee and OSB know all of this.

It's a license to steal that his trustee gave him. They are a duplicitous (sp?) bunch. I have attracted a lot of attention on this - more than I can reveal at this time but I'm hopeful to be able to share it soon. I can't afford a lawyer so I'm my own expert on this. I'm a creditor - I've filed an opposition and I have little/no hope in hell of seeing a dime of my (over) 50g "proof of claim" (also filed w/the B-courts). I had a lawyer (30+ yrs in Bankruptcy Experience) initially for this. He totally ripped me off, was in cahoots w/the trustee (they all know one another) - they adjourned a long matter hearing (lawyer did so without my consent). This resulted in a 10 month investigation for Prof Misconduct w/the LSUC which was a JOKE and in the end I took that lawyer to court (self-rep'd) for an $8500 bill he sent me and after a 6 hour hearing - it was decided that I did not have to pay one penny of that amount to the lawyer. This whole ordeal has been a nightmare. I seriously am thinking of writing a book on the whole ugly experience. Just found out the 4 Registrars in Bankruptcy for GTA are being replaced w/13 Case Mgmt Masters. Pre-requisite? They've all been lawyers for at least ten years. And how many of 13 has Bankruptcy Experience?? ONE of them. Another lucky break and likely further delay for my fabulous EX.

[WorkingDAD]

WorkingDad, I'd like more info on that book.

what exactly info? here is a link to the book...
Bankruptcy, Insolvency and Family Law, 2nd Edition

[hadenough]

I have bitched all the way to OTTAWA on this (a few times, and w/result) which is how I've managed to get it this far. It took me almost a full year to get the OSB involved - and 3x they tried to shut me down (close the file).

I'm supposed to pay 120k in five years! WTH? WHO could manage THAT. I'm so dreading the appt w/my trustee. Have already gnawed off a few fingernails.