Ottawa Divorce .com Forums


User CP

New posts

Advertising

  Ottawa Divorce .com Forums > Main Category > Divorce & Family Law

Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #11  
Old 09-09-2021, 09:04 AM
Brampton33 Brampton33 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Posts: 200
Brampton33 is on a distinguished road
Default

Also, just to add that ROFR does not work with parents that show any inkling of conflict. ROFR works when Parent A wants child to spend time with Parent B when they are not able to look after kids. If you went to court fighting for time, right there you know where you stand.

Judges rarely put in ROFR when there is any conflict. What happens is that Parent A cannot look after kid, and gets grandparent to look after them, and then makes up a story on how it was easier to just get grandparent to look after kid as they were already at the residence or some other lame excuse. Or you get a text after the fact saying "kid was sick today and stayed home from school. I got X to look after them as I thought you'd be busy".

Again, best you can do is 50/50 and look after what goes on during your time.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-09-2021, 09:31 AM
rockscan rockscan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 6,244
rockscan will become famous soon enoughrockscan will become famous soon enough
Default

Yes but it is at the judges discretion and your feelings are not the primary factor. Please note the highlighted sections of your statement:
Quote:
Originally Posted by DHTO View Post
I don't want to be argumentative, but section 7 (1) states:

In a child support order the court [Bold]may, on either spouses request[/bold], provide for an amount to cover all or any portion of the following expenses, which expenses may be estimated, taking into account the necessity of the expense in relation to the childs best interests and the reasonableness of the expense in relation to the means of the spouses and those of the child and to the familys spending pattern prior to the separation

The before school care expense is neither necessary, nor is it in the children's best interest. Is there any case law or precendents that state that this situation is covered under S7?
Also note the rest of the law:

(a) child care expenses incurred as a result of the employment, illness, disability or education or training for employment of the spouse who has the majority of parenting time;

In a shared custody situation this *could* be debateable but are you willing to take that chance? And that chance includes at least $3000 in your legal costs plus whatever costs you may owe when you lose.

Not to mention that all of that law is debateable by both sides and the judgewho has years of experience and a wealth of knowledge ultimately decides. Again, are you willing to take that chance with your legal education, articling history, court experience and bar writing?

Daycare is a crapshoot right now as it is difficult to secure for many parents. Your ex could argue that she needs child care secured in the event either of you is not available and by showing a waiting list and/or the amount of places she called, would win.

Go ahead and look at canlii.org for your own case law. The people who comment on this forum have experience with the courts and have been looking at case law for at least five years.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-10-2021, 12:03 AM
Kevin12345 Kevin12345 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Posts: 23
Kevin12345 is on a distinguished road
Default

Does it make any difference if you contest daycare prior to going to court? Have a motion coming up where I can take care of kids but she can’t and therefore needs daycare. She moved to another city and just want to be close to her work. She’s setup status quo per se even though I said I don’t agree with it. This is before it or daycare has started.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-10-2021, 09:30 AM
cleanSlate cleanSlate is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Posts: 79
cleanSlate is on a distinguished road
Default

Thank you for the responses. COVID is new.

The traditional work day where there is commute time to/from work has effectively ended for many for many years to come.

The employers attitude between work/life balance has as well; they are flexible. A 10 year old can do homework or play while their parent works at home so why the need for daycare?

I am very flexible with changing the court ordered access to reflect a new schedule for care that still leaves it at 50/50 +- a few points.

I can't find caselaw on this, maybe because it is new.
Can anyone point me in the right direction for existing cases?
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-10-2021, 09:41 AM
Brampton33 Brampton33 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Posts: 200
Brampton33 is on a distinguished road
Default

My understanding is that if 1 parent says they need before/after school care, then its needed. Regardless if they work from home or not.

Your ex may say they need full 100% concentration until 5pm and then want to leave their home workspace and go pick up kid from after-school care. That would be totally legit and hold up in court. You are not in a position to start making assumptions about your ex's employer's viewpoints on work/life balance or their flexibility. If your ex says she needs before/after school care, that is her call and judgement. You would have a hard battle to fight it.

The one thing you could challenge is the extravagance of before/after school care, if that is being considered. For example, your ex may say that it must be at X location at $800/month, whereby there is a perfectly good alternative option nearby at $300/month. That you could argue. But not whether or not it is actually needed in light of your ex working from home.

Last edited by Brampton33; 09-10-2021 at 10:21 AM. Reason: added statement about challenging cost of care
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 09-10-2021, 10:22 AM
cleanSlate cleanSlate is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Posts: 79
cleanSlate is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brampton33 View Post
My understanding is that if 1 parent says they need before/after school care, then its needed. Regardless if they work from home or not.

Your ex may say they need full 100% concentration until 5pm and then want to leave their home workspace and go pick up kid from after-school care. That would be totally legit and hold up in court. You are not in a position to start making assumptions about your ex's employer's viewpoints on work/life balance or their flexibility. If your ex says she needs before/after school care, that is her call and judgement. You would have a hard battle to fight it.
I do not understand that conclusion. Maybe the following helps.

I did not make assumptions, we do similar work and I have read her employers viewpoints on work/life balance and their flexibility.

The ex has lied to the judge about her work before so I am hoping her say so doesn't hold up and she needs written evidence which I will seek beforehand.

Looking for caselaw examples if they are available too.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 09-10-2021, 10:33 AM
Stillbreathing Stillbreathing is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 653
Stillbreathing will become famous soon enough
Default

You may do similar work and have read her employers viewpoints on work/life balance and flexibility but you do not have the legal right to determine what is in your ex spouse or your children’s best interests during your ex’s parenting time. If your ex says they need day care (for whatever reason) then the judge will rule in their favour. It is not considered unreasonable for one party to need daycare despite the fact the other is available to look after the kids at that time.
Your spouse is also not under any obligation to adjust their schedule so that 50/50 can be accommodated so that daycare is not necessary.
Although you may feel daycare is unnecessary due to the cost and that the child could spend time with you instead, there are positives to daycare beyond simply allowing the other parent to work unencumbered by children underfoot. A good daycare can provide enrichment to a child’s development via new experiences and provide valuable avenues of socialization with same age peers and other adults. It can also plant the seeds for independence from parents and learning to get along with others.

Last edited by Stillbreathing; 09-10-2021 at 10:43 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 09-10-2021, 10:58 AM
Brampton33 Brampton33 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Posts: 200
Brampton33 is on a distinguished road
Default

You'd be hard pressed to find case law as the issue is pretty cut and dry, and never makes it to trial. If your ex says she needs before/after school care (for whatever reason) it will be granted. You are saying to her "try to make it work so we don't have another expense" and she is saying "I need before/after school care". 100% a judge will side with her.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 09-10-2021, 12:33 PM
cleanSlate cleanSlate is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Posts: 79
cleanSlate is on a distinguished road
Default

Brampton33, you stated:
You are not in a position to start making assumptions about your ex's employer's viewpoints on work/life balance or their flexibility.

But now that it is known that I do know those things and they favor child care you are saying they are irrelevant. It does knock a bit of wind out how you say a judge will rule.

StillBreathing:
"you do not have the legal right to determine what is in your ex spouse or your children’s best interests during your ex’s parenting time"
A judge does though, changing parenting time is that done?


Food for thought: Did anyone think that maybe I am the one that wants to send them to afterschool care and I am defending this?
I am trying to get unbiased responses and be as certain as possible.


CANLII:
"afterschool care is not needed because the mother works from home and can care for the kids" is the only item I have found but it only has "reasons for a decision" for this case. Where is the rest?


There are COVID items there but the only one I found that supported getting the kids into afterschool was where one parent did something really bad regarding school and got smacked for it. Has not happened here.

prior history on this is with the previous child and the working from home parent would pick the child up from school, that was during the marriage.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 09-10-2021, 01:32 PM
rockscan rockscan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 6,244
rockscan will become famous soon enoughrockscan will become famous soon enough
Default

Ah the blind arrogance of new people who think they know everything.

You came here looking for answers and got some but you ended up challenging them all. If you cant find case law easily its because there either is none or the cases are not available.

Might be a good idea to get a lawyer who can assist. May also want to listen to them if they say its a no go.

And dont send me any more direct messages. I have zero interest in reading your ridiculous (and borderline controlling) views on your ex.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:35 PM.