Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Petition for Family Law Reform

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #61
    Originally posted by OntarioDaddy View Post
    I believe this mindset is the problem. People assume they have a lawyer and should therefore win. People also assume their ex has a lawyer and should therefore settle and avoid trial. If not, their lawyer is overcharging them and ex's lawyer is controlling everything and a complaint should be filed...

    Everyone has a right to a trial. I would assume most people think their offers are reasonable as well. If you feel you need a lawyer and believe you're reasonable, then go to trial and let your ex pay your legal fees; instead of giving up and blaming the lawyers.
    I salute your idealism, but unfortunately that is not the experience of most people in real life.

    Was your experience (as a client) as seamless and effective as you describe?

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by OntarioDaddy View Post
      What if their lawyer did explain that?

      I believe this mindset is the problem. People assume they have a lawyer and should therefore win. People also assume their ex has a lawyer and should therefore settle and avoid trial. If not, their lawyer is overcharging them and ex's lawyer is controlling everything and a complaint should be filed...

      Everyone has a right to a trial. I would assume most people think their offers are reasonable as well. If you feel you need a lawyer and believe you're reasonable, then go to trial and let your ex pay your legal fees; instead of giving up and blaming the lawyers.

      You have the option of an expensive lawyer, cheap lawyer, free lawyer, or no lawyer. You also have control over what they do and don't do. Choose wisely.




      Lawyers should definitely be telling you their rates and the risks involved before you agree to hire them. If you are willingly writing blank cheques or continuing to pay retainers, then it's on you and appears more as buyer's remorse.



      I agree with Rioe. You may be surprised at the cost of reading emails or phone calls, but those are costs involved in their hourly rate. If you don't confirm this info at the beginning, then you will definitely find out upon your first itemized bill.

      I also agree with Rioe that the petition was poorly written. Simply saying I want change will do nothing.

      OD - with the utmost respect, I would at this point bet you are a family lawyer.

      I don't mean to be provocative, or disrespectful, but IMHO your either gullible or a lawyer distracting matters away from the root cause.

      Comment


      • #63
        Nothing wrong with self-repping (I probably should be).

        I also had an ex who had LAO yet was only interested in trial. Was that my ex's doing or her lawyer's?
        We're not sure who's doing that was OnDaddy. The question is .. did the LAO lawyer encourage any kind of settlement at any point in time? (Show up to Conferences with any type of offers?) Was there any proof that there were purposeful delays that only a lawyer could loophole through? Did the lawyer allow inflammatory, irrelevant material in to the continuing record?

        I did study my lawyer's contract very thoroughly so I know that lawyer's won't proceed (or they shouldn't) if they feel there is an abuse of the process going on , which includes their client telling them to do ridiculous things.

        Thus, you can't just say "not my lawyer's fault ... the client controlled him/her". An officer of the court has a duty and a structured set of ethical codes to abide by. If they feel there is an abuse of the process, the primary objectives arn't being met......it's up to the lawyer to:

        a) Encourage the client to make the right decisions (offer to settle, mediation, no delays, no inflammatory, no perjury, etc).

        if the client is high conflict and says "naaa..let's go balls out and abuse this process...LAO gives e wings ..weeee"....Guess what .. it's up to the lawyer, as an officer of the court to drop the client.

        We shouldn't insinuate that lawyer's have no ethical responsibility whatsoever .. or that they are simply robotic conduits for their client's rampages. They do have responsibilities .. and all these posters are trying to express ONDaddy is that lawyers should follow things like:

        - Primary Objectives of family Law
        - Professional rules of conduct
        - etc.

        Petitions aside, personally, I don't see how you wouldn't agree with these posters.
        Last edited by LovingFather32; 11-02-2015, 09:45 PM.

        Comment


        • #64
          Gotcha .. perhaps I am talking about 2 different things. lol

          Comment


          • #65
            My case doesn't involve CS only SS so this is my take on reform:
            - SSAG should be scrapped and replaced by something that is predictable so that you know what you're entitled to no not.
            - Mandatory non-binding "mediation" or perhaps a case conference at the beginning of the process with a competent family law expert (judge, lawyer, case worker, bureaucrat) to issue an opinion letting both sides know what they think is a fair settlement. This should be paid by the gov or be a fixed feel. Both parties can decide to use this as a basis for a separation agreement or have the option of taking it to court. The opinion would be seen by the trial judge to help determine if either side is being unreasonable.

            Divorce has to be one of the most painful and stressful things you can go through. The present system seems designed to maximize the pain and stress. Considering that so many people go through this the government should step up and provide a framework to make it as quick and fair as possible.

            My 2 cents...

            Comment


            • #66
              Exactly!! Given today's social media technology.... there is absolutely no reason to not eliminate predatory/exploitive billing practices.

              30 bucks to read an email ? Really ????

              Surely we can at least petition what they can and can't bill for.....

              I don't understand why no one is stepping up......

              I will keep trying.... c'mon you guys....

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by OntarioDaddy View Post
                Quick math tells me $30 is only a couple minutes of work which seems reasonable to spend on a client's email. Most likely filled with emotional and irrelevant nonsense, nonetheless they have to read it or I'm sure you would be upset about that as well.


                The email I am thinking of had one sentence. "Please cease work."


                Anyone that supports a system that qualifies this as 30 dollars worth of legal advice is I am sorry to say, gullible.
                Last edited by plainNamedDad44; 01-07-2016, 03:34 PM.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Most businesses that offer services have a minimum charge. For example, last week I had a contractor in to look at our water heater. He was here for 15 minutes, long enough to tell me it was shot and needed to be replaced... that cost me $75 plus tax for 15 minutes of his time. Why? Because their minimum charge is $75... essentially this company could make $300 an hour if they had four calls like mine. It's all business.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    The problem is there is too much discretion - I've noticed now in Ontario Family Law there are too many things unnecessarily at the discretion of the judge. It gives lawyers leeway to argue..

                    The way to reduce litigation is to have better rules and systems that are reproducible to get the same results - i.e: like child support.

                    Theoretically if the rules were more clear, established and consistent there would be less of a basis to go to court. From what I've seen though the "rules" would be so biased that I prefer having the opportunity to fight over everything than letting moronic parlianment do more damage by pandering to the feminist lobby (it is 2015, right?)

                    Also if shared custody were a presumption 75% of litigation would end right there and kids would be better off

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Berner_Faith View Post
                      Most businesses that offer services have a minimum charge. For example, last week I had a contractor in to look at our water heater. He was here for 15 minutes, long enough to tell me it was shot and needed to be replaced... that cost me $75 plus tax for 15 minutes of his time. Why? Because their minimum charge is $75... essentially this company could make $300 an hour if they had four calls like mine. It's all business.
                      Silly comparison..

                      That $75 is for an initial call (much like what a lawyer would charge)... and sort of makes sense... then you generally get something close to a fixed price for all the rest of the work.

                      How would you feel if once you agreed to the work, you had 1/2 a dozen emails with the contractor to sort out a repair time and final product details... and each email cost $30.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by SomeGuy View Post
                        Silly comparison..

                        That $75 is for an initial call (much like what a lawyer would charge)... and sort of makes sense... then you generally get something close to a fixed price for all the rest of the work.

                        How would you feel if once you agreed to the work, you had 1/2 a dozen emails with the contractor to sort out a repair time and final product details... and each email cost $30.
                        Well I would fully expect that if that was the terms of the agreement. I for one do not enter into a contract with anyone without knowing the full details. One would think as adults people would be more knowledgeable and know not to enter into contracts without knowing the full the details of the contract. You can't complain after the fact. Lawyers are not the only ones who do this, a lot of engineers bill this way as well.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Berner_Faith View Post
                          Well I would fully expect that if that was the terms of the agreement. I for one do not enter into a contract with anyone without knowing the full details. One would think as adults people would be more knowledgeable and know not to enter into contracts without knowing the full the details of the contract. You can't complain after the fact. Lawyers are not the only ones who do this, a lot of engineers bill this way as well.
                          Well, I am an engineer and have had my practice as a "consulting" engineer for 16 years. I have never charged anyone a cent to read an email. Ever.

                          I have many friends in the same profession and they would laugh at the notion.

                          Let's call it what it is... parasitic, predatory and dishonest.

                          Forums like this will do to Family Lawyers what Uber has done to the taxi industry.

                          The sooner the better. I urge you all to act.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Dealing with human beings, emotions and every situation being unique requires flexibility, the discretion of judges and the unique skills of lawyers and cannot be confined into neat little boxes! If Family Law does not have the ability to think out of the box the changes needed to be relevant where society is currently focused would not be possible.

                            What needs to change is the accountability of lawyers and also adequate staff to process in a timely basis the paperwork, the enforcement of the court orders.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Beachnana View Post
                              Dealing with human beings, emotions and every situation being unique requires flexibility, the discretion of judges and the unique skills of lawyers and cannot be confined into neat little boxes! If Family Law does not have the ability to think out of the box the changes needed to be relevant where society is currently focused would not be possible.

                              What needs to change is the accountability of lawyers and also adequate staff to process in a timely basis the paperwork, the enforcement of the court orders.
                              The lie peddled by the divorce industry, if that was the case why isn't it done for child support anymore?

                              99% of issues are money and custody.
                              -I can make you a math calculation to determine spousal support (oh wait, that's done by SSAG....)
                              -Custody is a matter of:
                              A) are both parents going to properly care for the kids
                              B) do they both want to do it?
                              C) is there any logistical reason they both can't (Distance etc....)
                              D) Can they communicate at a basic level

                              Those are pretty much the current checkboxes in Quebec....

                              The little boxes would save EVERY body except the predators so much money that you would "lose" because of the lack of discretion would be insignificant.

                              Discretion is what tyrants use as an excuse to subjugate...

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Links17, well said.

                                Given the number of people affected by family breakups, it's unconscionable that there isn't a push to reform family law.

                                Comment

                                Our Divorce Forums
                                Forums dedicated to helping people all across Canada get through the separation and divorce process, with discussions about legal issues, parenting issues, financial issues and more.
                                Working...
                                X