Enforce Spousal Support Self-sufficiency

[billm]

are you an invalid or just a retard? How does going to court prevent you from upgrading your skills or going to work? Most of us manage court and work fine..what makes you so special?

Agreed, but you know, without the insulting part.

[FightingForFamily]

I'll be in this boat in 11 months. Review date at that time as per the SA. Same deal, ex has 2 university degrees and was employed all but the last 2 years of a 6 year marriage. I will have paid SS for a very reasonable 3 years. Pretty sure she thinks 2 years out of the work force means she can retire at 35 at my expense.

Her parents are millionaires and pay all her legal expenses, while all my income has gone to her and I'll probably have to self rep.

[thefunone]

Believe it or not - I actually want/need this to go to court...I don't want her to come up at review time and say she didn't understand...or was misinformed...can she please have two more years...I need a judge to provide concrete direction because any ambiguous statements will only work in her favour...if the result of court means that he will provide her x amount of time - then the onus is on her. I will be armed with various job listings well within her scope/field of education and ask that a judge impute a wage at least mid-range. I will also require an end date - which she opposes...she feels her 'entitlement' means indefinite.
I have read on here that some judges make spousal $1.00 / yr - that way - its never closed...I will pay my share - but there has to be an end date in sight...

[thefunone]

NoGoingBack....will keep you posted - on success ...or lack thereof
Cheers

[thefunone]

I am currently at the 75%-25% S7....but simply cannot afford 1500.00 per child per year...
My argument for her to get a full time job - is that it in turn offers up to the kids - more opportunity for things...activities etc. But her getting a full time job means that in the reduction of SS and CS..it would provide ME more income at the end of every month which is something she just can't stomach...."Why should I work - just so he can go and enjoy himself"

[arabian]

Slug you asked if I was "retarded" or an "invalid" - I would say I am neither.

Everyone's circumstances are different. I have been trying to close a business for the past 3 years. My ex has not provided company documentation as ordered 2 times to do so. As the company had large CRA debt, and I am a director of the company, any employment income I earn would be garnisheed. It has taken me 3 years to deal with CRA on this matter. Kind of difficult with no documentation. I only recently came to a resolution on that matter. On top of this my ex has taken me to court 2 x a year unsuccessfully to have SS eliminated. In my case my ex is his own worst enemy. If he had provided the documentation as ordered, I could have closed the company several years ago. I could have found employment and then he wouldn't have to pay me as much. No he had to keep dragging me to court, ignoring court orders, just to be spiteful. Only recently has he agreed to cooperate. I think he finally gets it.

My handicap to getting on with my life has simply been my ex's stupidity.

[leroadrunner]

John_Ottawa,

keep us updated on your process, and I will do the same. My numbers are almost identical as yours, my-ex is also not seeking employment.

Anyways, we had a clause that a De Novo review of her spousal support would be conducted with a mediator. So, I can no longer afford mediation or arbitration, so my only resort is to get the court to perform the review.

I am just starting the process...have lots to learn.

[John_Ottawa]

I missed a few of these replies but I've since added to my SA a few clauses to try to make this issue go away at some point. Firstly, the calculation that was first provided they were looking for about 925-1250 for SS but during the negotiation process she agreed to 750. We were together for 13.5 years so the range given was 6.5 years to 12 years support.

In our SA she agreed to a termination date of Jan 2018 which is 6.5 years from the separation date. So i've tried to be fair while at least giving myself an agreed end date. I've also added a clause that i can ask to have this reviewed at any time within the next two years and made it clear that she is obliged to look for work to become self-sufficient.

Now at the moment she's happy with the agreement and i am too... but it's yet to be signed... sadly her lawyer is still pushing her over the S7 special expenses ratio even though my ex doesn't care. The kicker we've already signed and agreed to a 50-50 split when we signed and agreed to the CS and SS in court back in Nov 2011! Perhaps her lawyer forgot that part lol who knows.

Hopefully we'll get this all signed before long.. it's only been 15 months or so since we broke up and i'm sure we're both sick and tired of the process and bs which accompanies it!

[sa_snoopin]

You guys are amazing! You're men that have stood up to your responsibilities. I'm trying desperately to just get half of my share after a 30+ year marriage. The husband emptied the joint bank accounts when I confronted him about his affairs. He's refused to be fair and divide equally. He's claiming he shouldn't have to pay me support because I work despite the big difference in our incomes. He's living in the matrimonial huge house because I agreed to move to the smaller one. He's got my 26 year married son living with him paying him rent.
He's refused to get a lawyer and yet has managed to take all 3 cars, and drag me through the court system, paying lawyers and still refusing to divide the assets. He's more powerful than God at this moment!
I've spent thousands on lawyers just to get away from him and be able to move to the tiny house I'm in. I had to take a loan, buy a car so I could get to work and yet the judge has not seen it fit to make an order to do anything. I have a list of police reports on every abuse but physical and yet still the judge has favoured him. I don't get it. All I want is a divorce and an equal division of assets.
Now I'm heading to a settlement conference without a lawyer (can't afford one anymore) with no chance of ever recouping all the losses. The mental and physical toll is unmeasurable. The only way out I see is to let him have it all and try to move forward. I'm 49 and worked my entire marriage to build what we had and now he gets it all.

[arabian]

Sounds like you had a pretty lame lawyer. The matrimonial property act is law and should be adhered to and I find it incredible that a judge wouldn't enforce it (with or without lawyers). Something doesn't add up here. I will assume all 3 cars either had money owed against them or were very old. You and your husband owned 2 houses. Did you get appraisals done on both homes? Are the homes paid for or mortgaged? Abuse isn't relative at this point, nor is adultery as you are living separate. You have to have proof of your husband's income and the disparity between yours and his to get a judge to order interim spousal support - they don't just order that on what you say. So both of you don't have lawyers - it will be a free-for-all. Yes you can let him have it all and then spend the rest of your life regretting it. Your choice.

If I were you I would hire a lawyer, even if it meant putting a mortgage on the house and go for what is rightfully yours.

If you decide to do nothing you have to suck it up and figure out how to not talk about it or you will soon discover you have very few friends who want to hear about your ordeal.

Poop or get off the pot.

[John_Ottawa]

I love my kids and I tried to fight to keep them.. as a father i don't have a right to my kids 50-50.. she just moved far enoguh away for that to not work. I do see them each weekend so perhaps i won in some ways... even though i may not agree with how things have played out.. a saying i've told myself many many times 'it is what it is' everything happens for a reason just do your best and try to make the right choices.

Your ex is playing the power game right now and the fact is no one wins in all this... if you can come to some sort of mutual agreement and at least be civil it makes the process bearable.

When it's civil it's easy when it's a battle ugh! been there and it can get nasty!

[sa_snoopin]

The matrimonial house is paid off, the small house has a mortgage. All 3 cars are fairly new and paid off. He actually stole the car I was driving right out of the garage and the police called it matrimonial property and did nothing about it.
I have every proof and all my paperwork including tax assessments, bank statements - you name it, I have it.
He's refusing to pay for a house assessment and though I'd gotten "A letter of opinion" from 2 different real estate agents and one assessment on the matrimonial house, he's still refused to split them. His offer to me is that he'll pay off for the small house I live in and that's it. I shouldn't ask for half of the bank accounts, or the cars, or the matrimonial house or any support. The difference in our incomes is about 35K.
His argument about the bank accounts is that I never put anything into them, which is true, but I paid all the bills, for the kids and everything else. That was the agreement we'd made because he'd emptied accounts when we'd separated in 1984. At that time I had one small child and no job. He'd lied in court that his income was reduced. This was validated by his then boss who provided a false letter. After we got back, he'd produced a large amount of money and told me he'd been paid under the table.
At that time I'd opened my own bank account to never be in that position again.
He's not being civil. He's paid off my son's debts so he's won him over. He's lost our adult daughter and two beautiful grand children because he couldn't buy them. They're religious and don't believe money is god. So now I've lost a son, he's lost a daughter and two grands. The family is split so badly but he's still fighting and refusing to be fair.
I'm hoping for some resolution next Friday at court. All my attempts of begging to work this out fairly have fallen on deaf ears and very nasty emails sent back to me.

[arabian]

Good to hear you are going to court. Now make sure you have a very good lawyer. A decent lawyer will get an interim order in place which will forbid him from disposing of matrimonial assets (property, cars, equipment, cash). A good lawyer will ensure that the order specifies the money he withdrew be put back in the bank. It is not "his" money it is the matrimonial money = belonging equally to both of you. That is the law.

It doesn't matter what you have in your account vs. what he has in his account. When you are married your assets are merged into one. He can argue all he wants but he will have to adhere to the law sooner or later.

You need a good, aggressive young lawyer who knows how to handle high-conflict individuals such as your husband. This is very, very important.

Get a copy of the police report and hopefully the police will have noted that the vehicle was matrimonial property. While it is obviously matrimonial property this is a good little document to have.

I totally feel for you. I was left in a worse situation as, like a fool, we kept all of our cash in the company accounts (as I was a partner I always felt this was the safest way to go - wrong). When my ex emptied the accounts I was powerless to do anything. Good thing you have a place to live.

It doesn't matter if your ex is a "powerful" person. You have your rights and the trick is to get a very good lawyer who will look after you. I wouldn't worry about the cost of the lawyer right now. A good lawyer will ensure that your ex pays your legal bills in the end.

[sa_snoopin]

Unfortunately at this point it's too late to get a lawyer. All lawyers want a $10K retainer the minute they hear the matter is in court. They won't even talk to you unless you provide such retainer. I don't have the money and I don't qualify for legal aid.
So I'm reading up as much as I can and putting a lot of faith in God to help me through this. I just want it to end and I hope he pays in ways that he's never even imagined.
I wish I could tell every woman out there, grab it all before you leave and the worst they were during your marriage, multiply that by 100 and that's how they'll be during a divorce.
Sad because there are some decent men still out there too, but majority... hmmm.
Now if the law could be enforced none of this would be needed in my case.

[HammerDad]

snip...or any support. The difference in our incomes is about 35K....

Unless that $35k difference is he makes $45k and you make $10k, there is a likelihood the ex would be successful in their argument against SS.

In order to be entitled to SS, one must prove entitlement. Part of that test is a financial comparison. Others here are better at explaining it, but if your net income is within 40% of the net family income, the need for support and entitlement is significantly diminished.

As for the car, unless there is a court order specifying that it is your car or the car was in your name only, than the police are correct in stating it is family property. If it has higher value, that value should be added to your ex's side in the division of assets and you will get assets/money equal to your proportion of the value.

Also, I would stay away from having a realtor do the assessment unless that realtor is a certified property appraisor. Not all realtors are also appraisors. So be sure that your appraisals are from appraisors.

The aggregate assets will be added up and divided in two. The who had what account and who paid what won't be relevent. It all will go in one pot, have the debts deducted, and split from there.