99% of clerks are not familiar with the Rules. They rejected you because you are NOT a lawyer. Its discriminatory practice common in the courts expecting everyone to be represented.
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Form 20: Request for Information Denied
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I tried to submit the form 20 again. Result was the same as the ex’s lawyer shut it down, again.
https://ibb.co/C5xtmKr
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So you've gotten free info from your ex's lawyer, sounds like twice now. The form 20 isn't what you need and what you're seeking either needs to be on consent or by court order, which you can ask for if you really want to.
But if they are claiming there's been a material change in circumstances, the burden of proof lies on them. What are they claiming as proof the child lives with someone else other than you? Them saying so isn't proof of material change, and all of that info will come out, you'll have an opportunity to respond.
So what exactly are you looking to get disclosed?
Unless I am completely misunderstanding, I am not familiar with your situation.
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Originally posted by Hide on Bush View PostWas provided a motion to change based on material change alleging son lives with material grandparents and not with me. I sought disclosure of any evidence to support their claim including dates.
I am trying to make it a habit of finding citations for things but all I can do right now is remember that the disclosure motion before a case conference are the financial ones.
DROs are different in that it is a lawyer overseeing but a judge can create orders, I don't know how much they are limited by.
Sorry for being wishy washy, need to read the rules and the notice to profession again myself.
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Originally posted by blinkandimgone View PostSo you've gotten free info from your ex's lawyer, sounds like twice now. The form 20 isn't what you need and what you're seeking either needs to be on consent or by court order, which you can ask for if you really want to.
But if they are claiming there's been a material change in circumstances, the burden of proof lies on them. What are they claiming as proof the child lives with someone else other than you? Them saying so isn't proof of material change, and all of that info will come out, you'll have an opportunity to respond.
So what exactly are you looking to get disclosed?
Unless I am completely misunderstanding, I am not familiar with your situation.
- Son is 10yo
- Ex has never had decision-making responsibility
- Ex has never had more than alternate weekends and just obtained Wednesday’s for two hours in 2019
- Son had always lived with me
- Ex makes $171,000. I make $26,000
- Extremely high conflict relationship between me and ex and son with ex. Son just recently told his school counsellor that my Ex was emotionally abusing him prompting a call to CAS.
- CAS conducted an investigation and substantiated the emotional abuse and recommended counseling through CAS
- Son is currently seeing a psychiatrist for depression and anxiety based on a referral from his family doctor.
- According to what I have been told from my Son and through CAS, Ex has frequently tried to get Son to support split decision-making and parenting-time despite Son's wishes. Son informed CAS its been "causing him to worry more than normal"
Current Situation
In November 2021, Ex put in a motion to change seeking:
- split decision-making responsibility
- majority parenting-time with me only having alternate weekends and Wednesday’s for two hours
- have son live with him
- have CS be based on where the child lives and not the table amount
Ex’s sole material change as stated on his motion was claiming my Son doesn’t live with me and that he spends the majority of his time at his grandparents place. Ex is backing that statement up by saying my son goes to school near my grandparents place and plays hockey near them.
I use my grandparents as before and after school care.
I fought to get an Order for OCL to be involved and have an assessment done prior to a CC. We are currently awaiting a decision on if OCL will take the file.
Originally, I felt the need to disprove Ex's claim and provided evidence Son did live with me through security camera footage from our house. It clearly shows Son lives with me. I even offered to get an affidavit from Bell Security stating the footage they provided was not tampered and taken straight from their servers. Ex's lawyer ignored me.
I submitted a Request to Admit which based on one of the requested facts, Ex stated his evidence was:
"personal observations, which can be corroborated by third parties"
This would be my Ex's mother as every other party has submitted an affidavit in support of my position. The request to admit also sought confirmation of various other allegations. The response provided me with some good tools as Ex admitted the large majority of his allegations were:
- "a belief and not a fact"
- "this is a belief based on my personal experiences but not necessarily a fact."
- "I rely on personal observations".
I am clearly able to disprove most, if not all of the allegations when the time is permitted, I am not as worried about that as I previously was.
My Request for Information was seeking dates in which my Ex claims my Son lived with his Grandparents. My Ex still claims my Son lives with his Grandparents as of February 15th, 2022, however due to their health, he hasn't been there in over a month and we have used different before and after care.
As the residency claim is the foundation on which all of the other allegations rest on, if this is disproven, I believe none of his other allegations will hold any weight as they are all based on my Son allegedly living with his Grandparents. This was also discussed in the request to admit in which the answer I received was
"As stated in my Response to Motion to Change, I take the position that [my Son] has spent more time with his grandparents than with you since September 2021 to presently dated [February 15th, 2022] The document speaks for itself.".
Additionally, Ex made a claim that I frequently withheld Son during Wednesday access. I requested dates of those occurrences as it has never happened.
As its clear my Ex doesn't care he is taking me to court with absolutely nothing to substantiate the allegations, I am looking to prepare myself for a possible summary judgement if deemed appropriate.
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Originally posted by Hide on Bush View PostWas provided a motion to change based on material change alleging son lives with material grandparents and not with me. I sought disclosure of any evidence to support their claim including dates.
Agree with Blink. You have been given free advice by their lawyer. For this they would provide their evidence at the conference and they are correct to wait for OCL.
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I doubt you will get a summary judgement.
As I’ve said in your other threads, you are getting way too into your feelings on this. Understandable as court is stressful but until he presents his evidence as part of the process, you can’t do anything. Try to do something (therapy) to help calm your mind or something (therapy) to take your mind off this.
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Originally posted by Hide on Bush View PostI tried to submit the form 20 again.
all I can do right now is remember that the disclosure motion before a case conference are the financial ones.
For this they would provide their evidence at the conference
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Originally posted by Hide on Bush View PostI submitted a Request to Admit which based on one of the requested facts, Ex stated his evidence was:
"personal observations, which can be corroborated by third parties"
This would be my Ex's mother as every other party has submitted an affidavit in support of my position. The request to admit also sought confirmation of various other allegations. The response provided me with some good tools as Ex admitted the large majority of his allegations were:
- "a belief and not a fact"
- "this is a belief based on my personal experiences but not necessarily a fact."
- "I rely on personal observations".
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If you're still trying to represent or help your spouse with her case, it's really not working and a lawyer is really needed! There is a large lack of knowledge on motions, disclosure, requests to admit, and just the process in general. If a lawyer is not possible, make use of the F.L.I.C. office daily.
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Would it be more appropriate to attach the form 20 and their refusal to the case conference brief and requests an order from the CC judge or go through a motion prior to a case conference?
That being said, you are making it overly formal. Send them an e-mail, say "give me X, Y, and Z documents", and if they haven't provided them by the time you do your CC brief, write "I requested X, Y, and Z from opposing party, they haven't provided, I am therefore seeking an order that they provide within 30 days of this conference".
In fairness even lawyers routinely get stuff rejected by the court staff.
Was provided a motion to change based on material change alleging son lives with material grandparents and not with me. I sought disclosure of any evidence to support their claim including dates.
I doubt you will get a summary judgement.
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Originally posted by OrleansLawyer View PostSummary judgment would have been the way to go if the OCL had not been appointed. If they take the case, that ship has sailed. It would have been worth it for OP to give it a try, given the test for a MTC.
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