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  • #16
    99% of clerks are not familiar with the Rules. They rejected you because you are NOT a lawyer. Its discriminatory practice common in the courts expecting everyone to be represented.
    In fairness even lawyers routinely get stuff rejected by the court staff.

    Comment


    • #17
      I tried to submit the form 20 again. Result was the same as the ex’s lawyer shut it down, again.

      https://ibb.co/C5xtmKr

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Hide on Bush View Post
        I tried to submit the form 20 again. Result was the same as the ex’s lawyer shut it down, again.

        https://ibb.co/C5xtmKr

        What are you requesting disclosure of again?

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        • #19
          Originally posted by rockscan View Post
          What are you requesting disclosure of again?
          Was provided a motion to change based on material change alleging son lives with material grandparents and not with me. I sought disclosure of any evidence to support their claim including dates.

          Comment


          • #20
            So you've gotten free info from your ex's lawyer, sounds like twice now. The form 20 isn't what you need and what you're seeking either needs to be on consent or by court order, which you can ask for if you really want to.

            But if they are claiming there's been a material change in circumstances, the burden of proof lies on them. What are they claiming as proof the child lives with someone else other than you? Them saying so isn't proof of material change, and all of that info will come out, you'll have an opportunity to respond.

            So what exactly are you looking to get disclosed?

            Unless I am completely misunderstanding, I am not familiar with your situation.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Hide on Bush View Post
              Was provided a motion to change based on material change alleging son lives with material grandparents and not with me. I sought disclosure of any evidence to support their claim including dates.
              Yes, wait for the DRO conference. Make sure you make your request citing the correct Family Law Rules.

              I am trying to make it a habit of finding citations for things but all I can do right now is remember that the disclosure motion before a case conference are the financial ones.
              DROs are different in that it is a lawyer overseeing but a judge can create orders, I don't know how much they are limited by.

              Sorry for being wishy washy, need to read the rules and the notice to profession again myself.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by blinkandimgone View Post
                So you've gotten free info from your ex's lawyer, sounds like twice now. The form 20 isn't what you need and what you're seeking either needs to be on consent or by court order, which you can ask for if you really want to.

                But if they are claiming there's been a material change in circumstances, the burden of proof lies on them. What are they claiming as proof the child lives with someone else other than you? Them saying so isn't proof of material change, and all of that info will come out, you'll have an opportunity to respond.

                So what exactly are you looking to get disclosed?

                Unless I am completely misunderstanding, I am not familiar with your situation.
                Background
                • Son is 10yo
                • Ex has never had decision-making responsibility
                • Ex has never had more than alternate weekends and just obtained Wednesday’s for two hours in 2019
                • Son had always lived with me
                • Ex makes $171,000. I make $26,000
                • Extremely high conflict relationship between me and ex and son with ex. Son just recently told his school counsellor that my Ex was emotionally abusing him prompting a call to CAS.
                • CAS conducted an investigation and substantiated the emotional abuse and recommended counseling through CAS
                • Son is currently seeing a psychiatrist for depression and anxiety based on a referral from his family doctor.
                • According to what I have been told from my Son and through CAS, Ex has frequently tried to get Son to support split decision-making and parenting-time despite Son's wishes. Son informed CAS its been "causing him to worry more than normal"


                Current Situation

                In November 2021, Ex put in a motion to change seeking:
                • split decision-making responsibility
                • majority parenting-time with me only having alternate weekends and Wednesday’s for two hours
                • have son live with him
                • have CS be based on where the child lives and not the table amount


                Ex’s sole material change as stated on his motion was claiming my Son doesn’t live with me and that he spends the majority of his time at his grandparents place. Ex is backing that statement up by saying my son goes to school near my grandparents place and plays hockey near them.

                I use my grandparents as before and after school care.

                I fought to get an Order for OCL to be involved and have an assessment done prior to a CC. We are currently awaiting a decision on if OCL will take the file.

                Originally, I felt the need to disprove Ex's claim and provided evidence Son did live with me through security camera footage from our house. It clearly shows Son lives with me. I even offered to get an affidavit from Bell Security stating the footage they provided was not tampered and taken straight from their servers. Ex's lawyer ignored me.

                I submitted a Request to Admit which based on one of the requested facts, Ex stated his evidence was:

                "personal observations, which can be corroborated by third parties"

                This would be my Ex's mother as every other party has submitted an affidavit in support of my position. The request to admit also sought confirmation of various other allegations. The response provided me with some good tools as Ex admitted the large majority of his allegations were:
                • "a belief and not a fact"
                • "this is a belief based on my personal experiences but not necessarily a fact."
                • "I rely on personal observations".


                I am clearly able to disprove most, if not all of the allegations when the time is permitted, I am not as worried about that as I previously was.

                My Request for Information was seeking dates in which my Ex claims my Son lived with his Grandparents. My Ex still claims my Son lives with his Grandparents as of February 15th, 2022, however due to their health, he hasn't been there in over a month and we have used different before and after care.

                As the residency claim is the foundation on which all of the other allegations rest on, if this is disproven, I believe none of his other allegations will hold any weight as they are all based on my Son allegedly living with his Grandparents. This was also discussed in the request to admit in which the answer I received was

                "As stated in my Response to Motion to Change, I take the position that [my Son] has spent more time with his grandparents than with you since September 2021 to presently dated [February 15th, 2022] The document speaks for itself.".

                Additionally, Ex made a claim that I frequently withheld Son during Wednesday access. I requested dates of those occurrences as it has never happened.

                As its clear my Ex doesn't care he is taking me to court with absolutely nothing to substantiate the allegations, I am looking to prepare myself for a possible summary judgement if deemed appropriate.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Hide on Bush View Post
                  Was provided a motion to change based on material change alleging son lives with material grandparents and not with me. I sought disclosure of any evidence to support their claim including dates.

                  Agree with Blink. You have been given free advice by their lawyer. For this they would provide their evidence at the conference and they are correct to wait for OCL.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    I doubt you will get a summary judgement.

                    As I’ve said in your other threads, you are getting way too into your feelings on this. Understandable as court is stressful but until he presents his evidence as part of the process, you can’t do anything. Try to do something (therapy) to help calm your mind or something (therapy) to take your mind off this.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Hide on Bush View Post
                      I tried to submit the form 20 again.
                      You serve your request for disclosure, you don't file or submit it. Court doesn't care about all the requests back and forth, only if reasonable items are not provided. In which case you would attach your Form 20 to an affidavit or include it in your document brief.

                      all I can do right now is remember that the disclosure motion before a case conference are the financial ones.
                      Not sure what you're trying to say, but disclosure is not urgent nor an emergency. You must complete a cc before motions are brought.

                      For this they would provide their evidence at the conference
                      Unfortunately, evidence won't come until motion or trial. Don't expect much, especially at a cc.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Hide on Bush View Post
                        I submitted a Request to Admit which based on one of the requested facts, Ex stated his evidence was:

                        "personal observations, which can be corroborated by third parties"

                        This would be my Ex's mother as every other party has submitted an affidavit in support of my position. The request to admit also sought confirmation of various other allegations. The response provided me with some good tools as Ex admitted the large majority of his allegations were:
                        • "a belief and not a fact"
                        • "this is a belief based on my personal experiences but not necessarily a fact."
                        • "I rely on personal observations".
                        Does this pose any relevance?

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Hide on Bush View Post
                          Does this pose any relevance?

                          There’s no point in requesting disclosure on this. Let him go to court with his statement that he has no evidence. Let the judge or dispute resolution officer call him out.

                          You are getting way too in your head.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            If you're still trying to represent or help your spouse with her case, it's really not working and a lawyer is really needed! There is a large lack of knowledge on motions, disclosure, requests to admit, and just the process in general. If a lawyer is not possible, make use of the F.L.I.C. office daily.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Would it be more appropriate to attach the form 20 and their refusal to the case conference brief and requests an order from the CC judge or go through a motion prior to a case conference?
                              Yes. Case conferences are a great place for disclosure requests. Some jurisdictions will entertain them before the case conference, but my understanding is usually not.

                              That being said, you are making it overly formal. Send them an e-mail, say "give me X, Y, and Z documents", and if they haven't provided them by the time you do your CC brief, write "I requested X, Y, and Z from opposing party, they haven't provided, I am therefore seeking an order that they provide within 30 days of this conference".

                              In fairness even lawyers routinely get stuff rejected by the court staff.
                              I would be concerned about your lawyer's competence if they are routinely having documents bounce at the counter.

                              Was provided a motion to change based on material change alleging son lives with material grandparents and not with me. I sought disclosure of any evidence to support their claim including dates.
                              You do not need that at this stage. If you really want to be litigation heavy, you can do the fill discovery thing after the case conference but before the settlement conference. However, that usually does not happen in family law - especially for a case where your parents are going to testify "no, the kids are with OP, not us, this is dumb".

                              I doubt you will get a summary judgement.
                              Summary judgment would have been the way to go if the OCL had not been appointed. If they take the case, that ship has sailed. It would have been worth it for OP to give it a try, given the test for a MTC.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by OrleansLawyer View Post
                                Summary judgment would have been the way to go if the OCL had not been appointed. If they take the case, that ship has sailed. It would have been worth it for OP to give it a try, given the test for a MTC.
                                So we just got a letter today saying OCL will not take this case. Does that open the door for a summary judgement again? I don’t want to spend the money for a lawyer to seek to do one if it’s not appropriate yet. Or should I still wait for at least the case conference?

                                Comment

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