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  • And I thought it's over!

    I would very much appreciate any advice from members of this forum regarding my current situation. Here's a background information.


    *My ex and I have been divorced for three years.

    *We have a signed separation agreement that has been negotiated and signed by our two different lawyers.

    *We have 50/50 child custody. I pay offset child support.

    *I pay limited term (3 years) spousal support.

    *As per our separation agreement, the majority of spousal support was settled by asset transfer from me to my ex. My ex has the house (mortgage free, worth about $750k). Every thing else was done following Family law requirements for equalization.

    *There are clauses in the separation agreement that impose imputed income on my ex, but only after 18 months from the signing date of separation agreement, in case my ex still unemployed.

    * My ex was employed upto one year after our separation date. My ex is highly educated (with a Ph.D) but claims not being able to secure any employment despite many attempts. My ex decided to give up looking for employment, but currently not asking to extend support or change terms of agreement.


    Here is my worry that is keeping me stressed even three years after divorce, my ex may in the future go to court to ask to change the terms of current separation agreement to ask for more spousal support, especially after both our kids become independent and I don't have to pay offset child support, and after the 3-year term spousal ends. Can she really do that? Yes, I realize she can but what is my ex's chances of succeding in changing the spousal support terms in the separation agreement, when the separation agreement was drafted following the Divorce Act and Family Law Act requirements and recommendations? The separation agreement was negotiated fairly and we both hired lawyers to negotiate terms of agreement, including a thorough spousal support terms . My ex had an excellent lawyer, better than mine.

    I hate to see my future plans get all messed up. I don't want to relive the experience again after many years after divorce. By the way my pension was also divided as part of equilibration process. Thank you.

  • #2
    Unfortunately she can keep taking you back to court indefinitely. Whether she is successful or not is another matter. One poster on here, Arabian, has had her ex file something with the court every year. Search her posts for helpful tips.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Stillbreathing View Post
      Unfortunately she can keep taking you back to court indefinitely. Whether she is successful or not is another matter. One poster on here, Arabian, has had her ex file something with the court every year. Search her posts for helpful tips.
      That's why part of my plan that once my kids go to university (I already saved enough for their university), I am packing up and permanently leaving this country to never return. The Family Law here sucks. I am fortunate enough that I do have good options where I can leave this country permanently and continue a wonderful life somewhere else. I honestly don't care about the consequences after I leave, and I am not planning to comply with any Family Law garbage after that. Where I will be going there is no bilateral agreement with Canada concerning Family Law issues. I did my best to be fair, following the Divorce Act and Family Law Act to the letter, compromised on everything my ex wanted, and she's appreciative of that, but if after all that I still can be tormented the rest of my life, because of a shitty Family Law, I will not take that. After I leave they can take my passport, driver's license and anything else they want; I don't care. I have even discussed this with my lawyer recently, and his feedback that I will simply be unreachable and not much can be done about that. As for income garnishment, that will not be possible, because I will not have any income from Canadian sources.

      Comment


      • #4
        I sympathize with you and it's true she can come back for more any time. I've been told the same thing. Even if the ex agrees to sign off on any future spousal they can still come back and try for more. So even if the chances for them are slim to succeeding you still have to burn money and time to file a response and deal with the shit that comes from being trapped again in a family law system designed to make lawyers and judges rich. I'm sorry this is causing you anxiety and I say good for you if you can screw the system by leaving the country. But your kids might tell her where you are unless you also plan to cut off communication with your kids. That would be the saddest part in all.

        Comment


        • #5
          Comfortably Numb,
          I agree with you. The Canadian slavery laws will never change. The legal system protects itself and MPs will never even speak of Family Law unless it means a play toward feminists votes. I plan to move from Canada as soon as I know my kids are set. I do not intend to remain in this country shackled to another person financially for “indefinitely”. The only term for this is Slavery.

          While I support the concept of Child Support, there are even aspects of CS that also lean toward the payor representing a Slave to the receiver of CS. The fact that if I wanted to get a second job (because I pay 50% of my income to my unemployed owner) to better myself, better the lives of my children with programs I could pay for, better clothing, food etc I need to hand over that income as well. Why would any payor of support work a second job, 40-70 hours a week only to hand over more money to their owner. It’s slavery and nothing more. It’s a Human Rights issue that is ignored by the Canadian public and the legal system completely takes advantage of that. Then one only need look at how the legal system has taken advantage of our children, it’s just shameful! “In the best interest of the children”? That is a classic “Human Shield” tactic. Any move to reduce a receivers support payment is a direct attack against the “Best interest of the children”. It’s a game that is completely rigged. Meanwhile, any transfer of support payment to a receiver is taking financial support directly out of the hands of the children.

          My parents took care of me for 20 years, even giving birth to me (imagine that!!), paid for my every need and even covering my college education costs. I myself worked hard in college to better myself, eventually finding employment and getting to the position I hold today. Then I met my ex and married her for 8.5 years. I tried to convince her to work...go to school... but it was always no. I even took parental leave twice to allow her to find employment. But nope. She would refuse to work.
          Eventually this plus other issues (She cheated) drove us to separate. And according to the Canadian slave system, I owe my ex wife a permanent salary for our marriage. A marriage that did not have any connection to my financial success, yet the government says I owe her an indefinite Salary while my parents are owed nothing. If anyone is deserving of financial income it would be my parents more so than my deadbeat ex who continues to do nothing because well.... why would she? She has an indefinite income protected by the Canadian Slavery laws. Something that the Charter of Rights does not have jurisdiction over. If it did, spousal support would be considered a violation. It’s hard to believe the hypocrisy of the Charter of Rights exemption over family law assigning indefinite debt to one person to pay/support another.

          The only way around slavery is to escape it.

          Comment


          • #6
            I am told it makes a difference: What is the exact wording of the spousal support clause?

            Comment


            • #7
              Complain and get your voices heard to as many men as possible so more men wake up and refuse to get married. Unless the feminist's are willing to re-write alimony/child support/family laws, Men should refuse to get married in these situations.

              Check out Better Bachelor on YouTube for a start. Great videos on these topics.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Helpmyspouse View Post
                I sympathize with you and it's true she can come back for more any time. I've been told the same thing. Even if the ex agrees to sign off on any future spousal they can still come back and try for more. So even if the chances for them are slim to succeeding you still have to burn money and time to file a response and deal with the shit that comes from being trapped again in a family law system designed to make lawyers and judges rich. I'm sorry this is causing you anxiety and I say good for you if you can screw the system by leaving the country. But your kids might tell her where you are unless you also plan to cut off communication with your kids. That would be the saddest part in all.
                Of course I will communication with my kids, and I won't be leaving until I am sure they are in the right path and in the university. I will let even my ex where I will be. As I said where I will be going there is no bilateral judicial agreement with Canada on Family Law issues.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I suppose anything is possible but a Miglin release is supposed to take care of this, or so I thought. It has clauses about the fairness of the negotiation etc.
                  My lawyer told me that the clause and term cannot be changed. I cannot reduce the spousal support and it will terminate forever.

                  Yes, keeping an eye on this thread.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I searched for Arabian's posts, found 25 and while he did mention Spousal Support may never end he did not give any details.

                    Canlii serach "spousal support" and "terminate forever" showed no cases where the spousal support was extended beyond the termination date. There were instances where the payer wanted to stop paying early and lost.

                    There were cases where the judge simply ruled it ended forever.

                    So I am confused with the statement it never ends.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by pinkHouses View Post
                      I suppose anything is possible but a Miglin release is supposed to take care of this, or so I thought. It has clauses about the fairness of the negotiation etc.
                      My lawyer told me that the clause and term cannot be changed. I cannot reduce the spousal support and it will terminate forever.

                      Yes, keeping an eye on this thread.
                      There are more recent cases where Miglin is not followed, but I do agree that the two fundamental principles that can save the day are fairness and legal representation. However, there is the issue of how to use the spousal support terms of agreement from a separation agreement in a divorce application. If the terms are included in the divorce order, then when spousal support is challenged the court can only focus on those specific terms in the order. However, if the terms were not included in the divorce order, a court challenge from the ex can result in opening the entire spousal support issue from scratch, giving existing agreement some weight. These are my distant memories of this, but I could have missed some other details. Therefore, if you have a separation agreement that includes spousal support terms, you should ask yourself whether it's better or worse to include the spousal support terms in the divorce order. Both ways, to include or not to include, have advantages and disadvantages. So depending on what you want the outcome to be, and how confident you are that your agreement is fair and followed closely the Divorce Act and Family Law Act, you may or my not want to include the spousal support terms in the divorce order. Miglin and caselaw cases following Miglin can shed some light, but I hope other more knowledge members here can chime in.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by pinkHouses View Post
                        I searched for Arabian's posts, found 25 and while he did mention Spousal Support may never end he did not give any details.

                        Canlii serach "spousal support" and "terminate forever" showed no cases where the spousal support was extended beyond the termination date. There were instances where the payer wanted to stop paying early and lost.

                        There were cases where the judge simply ruled it ended forever.

                        So I am confused with the statement it never ends.
                        I think a better search using keywords "Miglin" and spousal support in divorce order, etc. will be more relevant to discuss termination, etc.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Just because she can take you to court doesnt mean she will win and you can demand costs. Leaving the country means nothing as a judgement could be made in your absence and then if you come back and there is an order against you they can seize your passport. Why run away from this when you are in the right?

                          If your kids dont live away at university then you still have to pay child support which is another added complication in your grand plan.

                          The family law systems is unfair in places and there are those who are able to manipulate it but planning a mass exodus or even a political campaign is simply a waste of time and energy. Stop focusing on ridiculous measures and live your life. You ex has a phd and is lazy. Neither of those demonstrate she is entitled to a continuation of support so relax.

                          As for Arabian...SHE won spousal support from her ex husband as he methodically withdrew assets from a 20+ year business they built together. He sold equipment, emptied accounts and hid money in his gf and her familys accounts. She wasnt some lazy ass money grubber trying to bleed him dry. Her assets were stolen from her and she lost her business she had been running. Her ex (his gf led this effort) continued to file motions annually to stop paying it and lost every time because they had an iron clad agreement that was upheld by the court.


                          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by rockscan View Post
                            Just because she can take you to court doesn�t mean she will win and you can demand costs. Leaving the country means nothing as a judgement could be made in your absence and then if you come back and there is an order against you they can seize your passport. Why run away from this when you are in the right?

                            If your kids don�t live away at university then you still have to pay child support which is another added complication in your grand plan.

                            The family law systems is unfair in places and there are those who are able to manipulate it but planning a mass exodus or even a political campaign is simply a waste of time and energy. Stop focusing on ridiculous measures and live your life. You ex has a phd and is lazy. Neither of those demonstrate she is entitled to a continuation of support so relax.

                            As for Arabian...SHE won spousal support from her ex husband as he methodically withdrew assets from a 20+ year business they built together. He sold equipment, emptied accounts and hid money in his gf and her family�s accounts. She wasn�t some lazy ass money grubber trying to bleed him dry. Her assets were stolen from her and she lost her business she had been running. Her ex (his gf led this effort) continued to file motions annually to stop paying it and lost every time because they had an iron clad agreement that was upheld by the court.


                            Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                            Thank you rockscan. I appreciate your comments. I did not comment on arabian and I am not aware of her situation, but I do sympathize. I hope she's doing fine now.

                            My "grand" plan of leaving the country it always was there, but originally was to spend only half the time away from Canada once I retire. My frustration and anxiety was based on observing the situation of a close friend of mine who is currently divorced. My friend's ex took him to court five times to change the separation agreement, mainly the spousal support terms, and she lost five times. However, all that took a big toll on him, and he remains at a loss on why our Family Law system allows such a farse.

                            When my ex told me that she will no longer try to find employment, because it has been difficult for her to secure a job, I asked her how is she going to survive when in very few years the child support and spousal support will stop as per the SA. Her response was: I have already planned to go see my lawyer. So I too called my lawyer who told me she can always go to court but doesn't mean she'll win. Since the separation agreement, or rather the spousal support terms, are not included in the court final order, the court will look at the entirety of the SA to determine whether certain rules were followed (this is Miglin caselaw aftermath precedent). I felt enraged on why our Family Law system allows such thing, in the case where the separation agreement was negotiated fairly with full legal representation, etc. I spent five tortures years in negotiations before finally we arrived at a solid, fair and legal SA. I am not ready to go through something like that again, eventhough my ex's chance of success is slim...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              It doesnt mean you will have to go through an additional several years.

                              My advice is to stop worrying about your ex and what she may or may not do. All it will do it feed into anxiety and anger. You cant change her, you can only change your reaction to her.

                              Let her go and file something. Your case is not the same as your friend and there are plenty of cases where the case was dismissed. You dont know what will happen or whether she will be successful. She has probably been told one of two things by her lawyershe has no case or she has a case because they want her money. In the end the lawyer wins.

                              Live your life. Your kids will grow up and get married and have kids of their own which you will enjoy. Dont waste any more energy on her.

                              Comment

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