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  • Any signs?

    Hi folks,
    So I was wondering if any of you noticed or attributed your child's behavior or change of behavior to parental alienation?

    My S4 has aggressive outbursts after visiting his father's, shuts out my spouse who's been in S4's life for 1yr), and bluntly tells us that his father "makes fun" of us or "don't tell daddy lines". This behavior typically lasts about 24 to 48hrs. (documented)

    Though I have been separated for close to 3yrs, ex is fluently abusive, somewhat of a bully and uncooperative with me, yet I choose to keep my cool and disengage. As I was studying Social Work and Correctional Services, I approached a teacher of mine who works for CAS and she made a good point when telling me that if he was treating me in such a manner, he could very well be treating S4 that way or have no regards to the damage he was doing if he was acting out against me in S4's presence. Moreover, child services have been involved yet see no negligence on ex's part and as one worker told me, S4's fed, has clothing and a roof over his head & she only has a plastic badge, there was not much she could do even if there was parental alienation going on...

    But now S4 is speaking out, and I'm terrified.

    Thanks for your inputs!
    Pleasant weekend

  • #2
    Originally posted by Helpless View Post
    Hi folks,
    So I was wondering if any of you noticed or attributed your child's behavior or change of behavior to parental alienation?

    My S4 has aggressive outbursts after visiting his father's, shuts out my spouse who's been in S4's life for 1yr), and bluntly tells us that his father "makes fun" of us or "don't tell daddy lines". This behavior typically lasts about 24 to 48hrs. (documented)

    Though I have been separated for close to 3yrs, ex is fluently abusive, somewhat of a bully and uncooperative with me, yet I choose to keep my cool and disengage. As I was studying Social Work and Correctional Services, I approached a teacher of mine who works for CAS and she made a good point when telling me that if he was treating me in such a manner, he could very well be treating S4 that way or have no regards to the damage he was doing if he was acting out against me in S4's presence. Moreover, child services have been involved yet see no negligence on ex's part and as one worker told me, S4's fed, has clothing and a roof over his head & she only has a plastic badge, there was not much she could do even if there was parental alienation going on...

    But now S4 is speaking out, and I'm terrified.

    Thanks for your inputs!
    Pleasant weekend
    Act on your instincts. I had similar issues with my daughter when my ex became remarried. It was like night and day with her, the change was so noticeable to everyone. I tried a low-key approach at first, trying to get her to flush out her issues with my dad (they're extremely close and he's a non-consequence type of man), but she wouldn't even confide in him.

    I still have no idea what really went on in their home. But, what my daughter came home saying to me was so concerning, I got my doctor involved. She provided counseling, etc., but my girl still kept clammed up.

    I have a much better idea of what went on now, but this is years later now. The ex refused to discuss anything with me, preferring to put me down instead.

    My daughter was continually told not to tell mom anything about her visits at dad's. So me asking her was just further pressure on her....it was an awful situation.

    C&FS helped me tremendously to be honest. I had a young social worker who my daughter responded quite well to, and the social worker completely supported me and my instincts on what to do and how to react. She made me a much better, more confident mother with her words. Amazing a 40 something experienced mom getting supportive advice from a 20something unmarried, no children social worker. But, she was right on the money - I believed in myself and my instincts. I defied some orders, and worked with my daughter my way....horses have a lot to do with it

    Comment


    • #3
      Maybe do some reading on the subject before you start throwing around the term alienation - PAS as a syndrome is not fully accepted yet in court, and you will be better off focusing on exposing the patterns of behaviour that may lead to alienation.

      Try Dr.Warshak's Divorce Poison (1st to come to mind).

      Just be careful accepting what you read as "the truth", especially on the internet. PAS has some followers out there who look at things from a pretty extreme view - and as you read more, you'll find it's not all black and white.

      Check out CanLii - there are lots of cases where alienation is dissected - sometimes it is unjustified, sometimes it is.

      I would start with Dr.Warshak and go from there.
      Last edited by ByMyself; 11-22-2013, 04:14 PM. Reason: sp.

      Comment


      • #4
        [QUOTE=Helpless;156191But now S4 is speaking out, and I'm terrified. /QUOTE]


        What on earth is there to be terrified of?

        Your child has some behavioural issues. You deal with it.

        Sorry as to not be sympathetic. Be "terrified" when your kid becomes a teenager and has his driver's license and has an addiction problem. Be "terrified" when your child disappears in a shopping mall.

        Divorce sucks and children are often in the crossfire. It is a societal problem nowadays and there are plenty of counselling agencies you can access. If you need a referral simply speak to your family physician.

        Good luck

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by ByMyself View Post
          Maybe do some reading on the subject before you start throwing around the term alienation - PAS as a syndrome is not fully accepted yet in court, and you will be better off focusing on exposing the patterns of behaviour that may lead to alienation.

          Try Dr.Warshak's Divorce Poison (1st to come to mind).

          Just be careful accepting what you read as "the truth", especially on the internet. PAS has some followers out there who look at things from a pretty extreme view - and as you read more, you'll find it's not all black and white.

          Check out CanLii - there are lots of cases where alienation is dissected - sometimes it is unjustified, sometimes it is.

          I would start with Dr.Warshak and go from there.
          Absolutely. I wasn't even thinking alienation with my daughter - I was just thinking transistional issues, abrupt changes, etc. can all influence the behaviour of a child. I wouldn't say he was alienating her from me at all during this time. I would just say he wasn't really acting in her best interests, or changing what he thought best interests were based on the influence of the new wife.

          Comment


          • #6
            This week's intervention - and what our choices can do to our innocent children during the parent's divorce..... or even the need to lash out at the other spouse in front of them for no truly valid purpose aside to hurt the other spouse..

            Right off the bat a too long post, sorry. Worthy to grab a coffee!!

            ok just feel the need to express myself - only in terms of my doctor putting an emergency intervention on my behalf, previous Thursday - and I was called in to fill, ok it took me three hours to fill in all those questions. All those piercing right through the heart one's that I answered honestly and some were directed specific to the ex, more to the kids - 85% to me and...... next day the phone call to get in there Monday (the team went to me - or our doctor's office) and I met a very knowledgable doc who's newest specialty is in the area of severe pain management, a psychologist and the third was in the social worker discipline (she did not have her ID badge/tag on but any way......not important)

            Guess why I suddenly was of great interest to many???? Sad what she said (the doctors helping me such a great deal; here at this point, how as she said they are worried and worried enough to not put me off (she would have set it up on the Friday but they were out town, that she was very worried - enough to quote her that she was not going to beat around the bush...... people get rated on the responses and 10 was good, 1 was the opposite so she said for very good reason she is very concerned as I was not able to rate at even a 1.

            To this thread, I wasn't trying to think, I just did my best to be true to myself and the situation at hand, facing three doctors who are. Interesting that I was asked if the Ex had any mental issues, any - I will leave it as she asked much more. Then the kids, who is with who, what is my current relationship with each and then yet another battery of intrusion.... Surprised when I was asked, after two plus year apart, Why won't my Ex let me go?? (I believe I had the right response to that one!!)

            When the police, and the children, like myself (For the first time I had some pretty darn on the ball professionals here (and if you noticed the point will soon arrive!!) So the police couldn't understand why the EX wouldn't give me my meds, heck she even confiscated my one-a-day vitamins, my underwear and even my puppy who got her chance as when we first arrived with the police (Gosh I miss her) but she got to me and nearly knocked me over as she parked atop of my feet - took three people to drag her way as she put the brakes on - until I bent down, talked to her, shared a few kisses and said we will visit next time (and the kids finally were able to drag her off = albeit reluctantly).

            The police asked what they saw as wrong or not right and I looked at the officer with I bet a really odd look - the vibe in the house was wrong and it wasn't the dog??? He said, "no that dog really misses you! but the people in the house?? They advised me to just deal with the kids because although I was nailed right here a few times for evolving the kids but I didn't have the money to replace squat after the Ex effectively took, cleaned out what cash I did have available, and well the kids are young adults...... and I just looked at it again as the crazy Ex again screwing with their heads??

            The End - or The point:
            this stuff I knew the ex was making hard for the kids to just do what's right - the police still can't believe that I do not have my personal possessions yet and although I will leave the 101 questions they did ask me about the kids Monday I have had the whole week to stew on what these Doctors said, they were then also almost concerned about the kids as they were about me??

            So they went right to the last page, my ex has no doubt carried out some of the worst forms of partner abuse there can be without leaving any blood or marks behind, that the (I think they labelled marks left as battery?) is actually the easier form of abuse as far as therapy goes. I hate to admit that I am really super bothered not for me but what they said about the kids. That they would witness not the actual entire acts or even perhaps the tail end or even just heard in their rooms behind closed doors.

            So what they saw, even if doesn't seem like it, children they said are very perceptive and these three kids have seen the long term partner abuse and what it did to me - that it was dad and not mom doesn't matter. They said that I have learned to live with it as "normal" or even just like pain, it was something to endure, it was only towards the end that I truly thought what she was doing was wrong. But the docs had my file, my time in 2009 that saw me as what I called a or labelled as pain breakdown - the psychologist saw it much different.

            And the worry I now get to hold onto now is that, they explained that my answers were quite alarming, that the kids in my eyes look as they have given up on Dad in fact may just be the end product of their turning this time off and the easiest way is to back away from me as I admit they saw some not so great times as I slipped into a corner, or in the garage - countless times crying silently, even at times so bothered that I sat there just shaking. The financial abuse never came to light until I left the house, I admit I began to resent the kids not wanting to stop even for 5 minutes or even meet somewhere and get a coffee?? But they see it now and now after my thinking about this for the week, thinking everything these doctors said really makes sense.

            And now I get to add what the psychologist explained as the possible beginning of the abuse cycle - and their children. For my kids? I can't talk to them about this - they would think I am a crazy Mom bashing "------". And the issue?? the cycle can take years to surface and in such a large way I pray they are wrong, this time at least. For the sake of my kids, I do not know if these doctors will approach them - they are all adults now and I think like myself, was required to give my permission first. I can just pray for them today and maybe if I am lucky, may "still be here" if that time comes?

            And why won't my Ex just let me go? how about using the kids as pawns (the last biggie was my Ex giving just a piece of the last letter between the lawyers - out of context, and with no doubt the Ex wanted our relationship to end, my eldest daughter was the only child that came by somewhat often, called once in a while since my puppy passed in March some what less but since the getting that e-mail which did inform me what is happening, and I have tried since then to repair the damage and it is very slow going since mid-August. But slowly she is returning - my Ex? Will stop at nothing I think. I have yet to find any reason to think otherwise.

            So lets all remember our children, even the older one's that can be hurt long term through the actions of just one parent. Our children are more important than any being forced to become adults far too early - and all for what????

            Comment


            • #7
              Oh ddo I feel for your pain and loss and everything. Our children do suffer the mistakes of their parents.

              I hope you will see your kids more often in the future and can, in time, build a good strong new relationship. Your kids love you and in time hopefully everything can be sorted out.

              Stay strong and know you have many friends out here who think well of you.

              Comment


              • #8
                I'm sorry to read this. I hope that things get better for you

                Comment

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