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Justice Denied: Huge legal bills push many to self-represent in court

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  • Justice Denied: Huge legal bills push many to self-represent in court

    My Reality....

    Justice Denied: Huge legal bills push many to self-represent in court

  • #2
    Self-Representing is easy.... I could probably teach somebody how to represent themselves really well in family law matters in 20 hours as long as they are willing to do some homework.

    Once people stop making money off divorce I guarantee the divorce rate will go down.

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    • #3
      Where do I sign up Links17? I'm in...

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      • #4
        If it was legal I would do it in Quebec.... (where I am). I don't think non lawyers are allowed to train people.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Links17 View Post
          Self-Representing is easy.... I could probably teach somebody how to represent themselves really well in family law matters in 20 hours as long as they are willing to do some homework.
          I don't disagree but, there is one thing most people don't consider about self representing. The emotional attachment to their own file. Most people cannot self represent not because of the lack of knowledge but, the inability to control their emotions.

          People are often overwhelmed with their emotions when in court. So it isn't the lack of knowledge or understanding. It is their natural inability to detach from the emotional state they are in to actually do the work.

          Good Luck!
          Tayken

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          • #6
            Looks like i'm headed down this road myself... The whole system is broken.

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            • #7
              I agree strongly with Tayken.

              I think of myself as reasonably well-educated and confident and not the type to be intimidated. My background is such that I have frequently had experience with court proceedings regarding work-place/HR matters. I've co-owned/managed a business. However, none of this prepared me for family law. I was dumbstruck by the simple fact that everyone lies on affidavits and many do not obey court orders.

              Only after having taken a crash-course in family law by way of being the subject of the proceedings for over 6 years would I now contemplate self-representing.

              If I could do it over again I would have done no different - hired competent legal counsel. Things I would have done more of is simply attend family court more often as an observer and perhaps made more offers to settle.

              I think Tayken is correct that we are too emotionally tied to our own cases to be effective. I know I wasted lots of valuable lawyer time emailing my rants to my lawyer. I was fortunate that the lawyer glanced at them and tossed them in the garbage. Yes he would take 20 or 30 pages of my hard work and reduce it to 2 pages of RELEVANCE.

              Staying focussed on relevant matters, in an emotionally-neutral manner, is IMO critical to success in family court.

              I have utmost respect for people who self-represent who do not waste the taxpayer's money. Too often people are unprepared, too emotional and simply unrealistic in what they expect to achieve in court. Submitting lengthy affidavits when the message they want to get across could have been done with effective writing in 3 or 4 pages instead of 30. This is where a good lawyer can make the difference.

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              • #8
                I wanted to self rep .. I truly did. I was told in the first few pages of my early threads to be careful and make all the right decisions early. This was for my child .. the most important thing in my world.

                I became almost addicted to learning/memorizing the CLRA's/FLR's and sprinkling relevant caselaw and exhibits. I chose my words carefully and rehearsed what I would say for days in front of a mirror of the judge.

                But still .. I couldn't chance that I might miss something, and that something could be a deciding factor for custody/access. Whether it be the dispute forms for the OCL (I had no idea there were actual dispute forms), etc or bringing motions, etc at the right time .. I knew every step had to be perfect....so I retained a lawyer.

                Keep in mind I made an ad on kijiji outlining my case desperate for a sympathetic lawyer to come help get D4 back. A guy ended up calling me from my ad and referring me to my lawyer. The very next day on one of my many visit to FliC the lady also referred the same name.

                I paid her $200/month .. that's it. In my situation she fought hard. She believed in my case so much (knew I was telling the truth) that she became emotional with scumbag LAO lawyer in the hallways. The judges loved her and she did very well for me ... at a great price.

                She told me the OP LAO told her that when I self repped I took too many notes whil OP was talking (Needed to refute). People here told me not to cry or show emotion ... my lawyer told me to cry at Conferences (not crazy sobbing..just teary eyed) if I could to show the judge how much I cared.

                The emotional piece is a tough one. You have cut throat LAO lawyers riding LAO checks, encouraging conflict and false allegations .. some teaming up with dirty OCL workers to ruin your life. I was emotional a lot on the forums (were I could be) .. but when it came down to business I didn't give OP the emotion they sought. I smiled, shook hands, was polite and completely rubber .. every lie they said bounced off me.


                Not everybody is represented for $200.00 month. My lawyer and I backed my ex in to a corner. Built a flawless case that almost won me full custody until ex decided she'd better settle before she was an EOW mom.

                If I had to do it all over again I'd self-rep though. I know I'd do very well.

                LF32

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                • #9
                  I feel pretty confident with most aspects of family law and I have a hobby of doing separation agreements for others now. But despite being knowledgeable, logical and often having to present/debate for my job, I still feel terrified at the prospect of representing myself in court. The emotions would be overwhelming.

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                  • #10
                    I've never understood why legal aid doesn't have to provide lawyers for both sides.

                    LAO vs. LAO = fair
                    self vs self = fair
                    LAO vs self = unfair

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Janus View Post
                      I've never understood why legal aid doesn't have to provide lawyers for both sides.

                      LAO vs. LAO = fair
                      self vs self = fair
                      LAO vs self = unfair
                      Different earnings/sliding scales, etc.

                      All I know is it's going to backfire on them. Why? It's not like it was 25 years ago. There is a wealth of information, the internet, etc. A new breed of self-reps are being created. These self reps may not have the "in-court" experience .. but they know their case better, can spend more time on it than the average lawyer and study the laws like crazy to match the knowledge of actual lawyers.

                      Unfortunately society rewards the members of society for not working and being lazy (not talking about ODSP or disability stuff) with food, clothing, paying their bills, Welfare, free lawyers ... you name it. Soon nobody will want to work.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Janus View Post
                        I've never understood why legal aid doesn't have to provide lawyers for both sides.

                        LAO vs. LAO = fair
                        self vs self = fair
                        LAO vs self = unfair
                        I agree 100%. I also don't understand that when LAO lawyers have costs orders against their clients why LAO isn't responsible for covering the costs. (e.g. WD's matter!)

                        I would even say LOA vs Represented $ is not fair either. Most LOA certificates can bleed out most people paying for counsel.

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                        • #13
                          Am I the only one who enjoyed it?

                          I actually enjoyed all the litigation, I think the legal divorce process was more rewarding than the marriage itself. I should thank my ex-wife for being such an idiot and cheating on me... I never would have had all this fun.

                          I've practically forgotten my marriage, like it never happened! The euphoria of defeating evil lawyers and judges despite having the full machinery of the state pointed against me is spectacular. I didn't even feel like I was against my ex-wife (she was a non-factor), it was more me and against the system.

                          I appreciate to that I got the chance to learn about the law, i am a richer person because of it.

                          If I manage to win my lawsuit against my ex-wife's lawyers, I am gonna write a book....

                          I even applied to law school because of all this.

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                          • #14
                            well Links you certainly possess the "self confidence" required to pursue a business such as the practice of Law....

                            I can't think of anyone ever posting on this forum (for as long as I've been on here) who says they enjoyed the litigation/divorce process.

                            As always, it is interesting to read your posts. I look forward to hearing of your success against your ex's lawyers.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Links17 View Post

                              If I manage to win my lawsuit against my ex-wife's lawyers, I am gonna write a book....
                              If ever you do, I'll buy a copy for sure!

                              I agree that it is satisfying to beat the system. The crown prosecutor for my criminal litigation hardly said a word - it was my testimony, photos, preparation and witness' that won the case (without any doubt, the facts were overwhelming).

                              Family law is quite another thing, I would not have had the guts to present my own case - Ex changed lawyers many times, things got complicated ...
                              I'm glad my lawyer took care of it all. He did exactly what I wanted - got me a fair settlement.

                              Looking back, I had the same reaction as Arabian ... I could not stomach the amount of lies that were told in court and how easy it is to ignore court orders. Family law is a three ring circus!

                              In criminal court the standards are much higher.

                              Comment

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