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Parental Alienation?

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  • #16
    B_F is right. This happened in our case.

    Originally posted by Berner_Faith View Post
    I can understand what you are saying, but the mother can easily say... Daughter has instructed the providers not to disclose that information.

    The agreement will hold no weight when she decides to not allow her parents to have access to her personal information.

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    • #17
      Doesn't sound like parental alienation to me. Sounds more like a p'd off teen fueled by teenage peers.
      1) STOP blaming Mom.
      2) Dad should try emailing daughter. Apologize for misunderstandings and tell her he loves her and wants to re-establish relationship. Keep it short and sweet. If emails are NOT returned, then he knows she is receiving them. Just because she doesn't respond, does not mean she isn't receiving.
      3) If emails are bounced back because teen has blocked Dad, try regular mail. Dad writes a short note apologizes for misunderstandings and tells her he loves her and wants to re-establish relationship, addresses it to teenage daughter, attaches a stamp and mails it to daughter. Again just because daughter doesn't respond does not mean she doesn't receive it. Periodically send correspondence.
      4) (not one I recommend) Dad gives written letter to one of older siblings and ask them to give letter to teenage daughter. That way you'll know for certain that she receives the note.
      Eventually, she'll see the error of her ways.
      Whatever happened she was grievously hurt by it and I suspect not communicating with Dad is her way of punishing Dad for whatever it is that happened.
      Good Luck.
      Last edited by Epona; 11-29-2012, 10:28 AM.

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      • #18
        THANKYOU Plky. It helps to hear from someone who has gone through it. And I absolutely agree with everything you have said.

        Our intentions are not to court with this, but we just weren't sure if there were family court counsellors out there that would offer us help or if we can request a counselling session with dad and daughter. We just weren't sure where to go from here.

        We have never sabotaged daughter with communication, dad would generally write her a letter via FB every couple weeks asking how she was and saying he loved her and missed her.

        I would write her a quick msg via FB usually weekly inviting her to a movie, dinner, or shopping, in the summer camping trips.

        Both of us were met with pure silence every single time, but that didn't stop us from our regular messages.

        Not once during those messages did we attempt to talk to her about what went on. In fact, one time only, early on, I wrote her and told her that when and if she would like to communicate or come over or go out, that we would never and will never discuss what went on and we will pretend nothing happened and just pick up where we left off. We thought this might just be easier for her this way.

        One morning not too long ago I FB'd her and asked if she would like to go for lunch, my treat. Minutes later her dad and I were both blocked from her FB. That was our last way to contact her aside from regular old mail.

        To me I suspected the mother was involved only because of daughters attachment to us and expecially me. All she wanted was me, it was me she snuggled with on the couch during movies, not dad. It was me she simply followed around the house, she really was my bud, and we did lots of "girlfriend" things together. Half the time, she asked if dad could stay home because she wanted it just the two of us.

        She was also very attached to my youngest, an 8 year old girl. It was the younger sister she never had and always wanted. My daughter IDOLIZED her. She LOVED her big sister and they did lots together too. My 13 year old is a boy and loved her too, but he more liked playing video games and such, not the girly things the two girls always did together.

        My daughter attempted to text her several times through texting on her ipod. It was something they always did. Except her messages started not going through. We suspected she erased my daughter as a contact. Finally last week, my 8 year old wrote a letter all on her own to her big sister. We have no idea what it says as it was sealed in an envelope when she asked us to mail it for her. We are not sure what will happen when that letter arrives, but I am heartbroken for my 8 year old as she just does NOT understand and is deperate for her big sister too.

        Now as far as parental alienation goes, I am completely familiar with it. I was alienated from my father as a little girl by my mother. She had me believing he was not a good man. I believed her for years and I was SO attached to my mom. When I became an adult, I did a search and found my dad. (He had tried to communicate several times growing up and I ignored him, as I was "mad" at him for all the things my mom told me about him). I was afraid to even mention my dad around my mom for fear she would get upset. As an adult I gave him a chance.

        Well, unfortunately, it was just too late. After so many years, the damage was done, and the relationship just couldn't be salvaged. Even though I knew my dad was at no fault, I just could never get that bond back. And yet I still have a good relationship with my mother.

        Point is, I KNOW firsthand what it is to be a child and teen alienated from their dad. The damage it did to me to live without a dad was tremendous. The loss I felt my whole life, horrible. It affected relationships and most aspects of my life. It was a BIG deal. Not something to be swept under a rug. And to be honest, my mom wasn't THAT bad, only got me to think my dad was bad for leaving us.

        This is what I DON'T want my stepdaughter to go through. I also know the more time that passes, the harder it is to come back. I don't want her to suffer in any way, and I have a hard time believing she doesn't miss us all. Her dad the most, I am sure. I don't want any damage done to her psychologically by not having dad there during formative years. She NEEDS her dad, in my opinion. A child needs BOTH parents.

        Anyway, I have made the decision to back down and let dad handle it in case she IS mad at me. But what dad should do next is still our concern. We will not be able to just let it go. She is our child and we will not give up on her.

        (PS. the other two children are being affected differently I believe, as oldest son is autistic and is VERY attached to dad. I don't think mom would try to alienate him. Middle daughter is VERY strong willed and does not get along with mom. She has told us that mom has tried with her, eg. she needed a computer for school-we offered to pay a share-mom wanted to get her a macbook the most expensive-we offered share of slightly cheaper computer stating macbook is luxury not necessity-mom told daughter we just don't care about her enough to want the best for her like she does. Daughter basically tells mom to F-off and mom leaves her alone for the most part knowing she isn't getting anywhere with her).

        And I know this is unrelated, but before anyone goes thinking dad left and I was perhaps the one he left for and maybe that's why daughter is angry at me, this couldn't be farther from the truth. A little background: my husband was married to his ex for 20 years and was in love with her. She had an affair lasting two years, and then kicked him out of their home with nothing but a duffel bag of clothes. Two weeks later she moved her lover in with the 3 children there and changed the locks. My husband was never allowed anything of his out of the home, yet he signed the entire house over to her.

        I met my husband long after, we became friends as my story was identical, my ex had an affair, forced me out of our family home yadda yadda. Neither of us are the "bad guys" here. No fault divorce or not, sometimes people form opinions about people before they know the truth. I kind of felt I was being judged as big bad stepmom a bit.

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        • #19
          When I went through my separation a few years ago, my step daughter (I know not the same) was 17 years old. I know how moody teenagers can get...and I know how emotional they can be.

          Consider this...and I don't mean to suggest at all that anyone in your situation is blind. There is a possibility (remote...but then again, what you find yourself in is not typical and extreme), that perhaps it's completely unrelated to both the skipped weekend and alienation. Teenagers...especially ones who have suffered stress (like a parents divorce), tend to be insecure. Could it be that she did something very wrong and does not want to disappoint you if you found out? Since you have exhausted all other explanations, maybe there is something else. Maybe she was caught using drugs? Pregnant? Cauight shoplifting? Who knows, but if there is something she has done that is shameful to her then that's a possibility. I always remembered that when I'd get in trouble, it wasn't the yelling that hurt me the most...it was that feeling that my parents were disappointed in me. It can drive a teenager crazy...especially if they are insecure to start with. With hormones raging....her coping could be to cut herself off from you to avoid all that. It's a very powerful thing if she has done something shameful. In their minds, it can be easier to avoid it, than confront it.

          Anyhow, I've read this entire thread and something doesn't add up. Just be open to the fact that it may not have anything to do with that skipped weekend or her mom.

          I wish you luck...it's NOT easy...

          Comment


          • #20
            By all means, I would suggest dad/daughter counselling to mom. The response (with words AND actions) should be, "Absolutely. Tell me what I can do to help". If you get anything from Mom that resembles the following (from Childress' website), I wouldn't even attempt it as it will likely do more harm than good:

            1. Listen to the Child: The allied idealized parent will request that we “simply listen to the child” or bemoan that the Court or therapists are not “listening to the child.” This statement emerges from a narcissistic effort to exploit the child’s symptoms.

            2. Selective Parental Incompetence: The allied--idealized parent will display selective parental incompetence with the following types of statements:
            o Visitation – “What can I do? I can’t make the child go on visitations with the other
            parent.”
            o Phone calls – “What can I do? I can’t make the child speak with the other parent on
            the phone.”
            o Therapy – “What can I do? I can’t make the child go to therapy appointments.”
            These statements emerge from a narcissistic effort to exploit the child’s symptoms.

            3. Justification: the allied--idealized parent will justify the child’s hostility or excessive expressed--anxiety toward the targeted parent with the following types of statements:
            o General Support – “I know just how the child feels. The other parent is… <litany of criticisms, often centering on the other parent being selfish, insensitive to the feelings
            and needs of others, neglectful as a parent>.”)
            o Spousal Boundary Violation – occasionally the allied--idealized parent will overtly express a full loss of boundaries between the relationship the child has with the other
            parent and the spousal relationship: “I“I know just how the child feels. The other parent did
            the same thing during our marriage. He/she was always… <litany of spousal complaints, often centering on the other parent being selfish, insensitive to the feelings
            and needs of others, and neglectful>.”

            If mom and daughter are unwilling you can't force it. Really, there is nothing you can do except wait and keep hoping.

            Originally posted by photogmom View Post
            THANKYOU Plky. It helps to hear from someone who has gone through it. And I absolutely agree with everything you have said.

            Our intentions are not to court with this, but we just weren't sure if there were family court counsellors out there that would offer us help or if we can request a counselling session with dad and daughter. We just weren't sure where to go from here.

            Comment


            • #21
              I'm with SingleDad on this one, don't think it's anything you did or anything to do with missing one weekend, she's 17 and needs to get a grip on the fact it was only one weekend that she was assured that would be made up for.

              I too think there is more to this in that perhaps she is embarrassed or ashamed of something

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              • #22
                Having gone through separation and divorce with teenagers while ex kept making claims of PAS. While there was none, it created so much stress and resulted in making the situation worst. Without providing all the details, sad but ex allienated his own children and still does after 2 1/2 years. Ongoing conflict just give a reason to teenager to also take a stand of their own.

                They specially do not react well when their feelings are disregarded and their reactions are unpredictalbe. My 2 teenagers reacted and handled the situation very differently and while one can forgive and move on the other does not. While you may found the issue insifignicant for you but it is probably not for the child it can be the opposite.

                As far for the information, ex tought that I was witholding information when there where none to share.

                The only solution we arrive to was to have in the agreement that the ex can obtain the information directly from 3rd party including health care info, and school information. School can send separate communication and Ex can communicate directly with health care professionnal.

                Since one of my T negatively reacted once he caught ex trying to get out information direclty from 3rd party without his knowledge.

                So we made them aware of the agreement to eliminate any surprise and that went well. Their reactions was better than expected as is that they did not care about regular health care, dental and school information being shared but they do care about any counsellor or pshychologist information. While one requested to being told prior sharing the info, the other one just refused to attend counseilling if information was going to be shared.

                It is noted that by the law a child over 16 can make the decision for the health treatment without the parent consent therefore the parent can be out the loop. School will respect the arrangerment until the child turns 18.

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                • #23
                  Hey Moonlight.. Has anything happened with this? My boyfriend is living through a similar situation with teenage daughters and it's heartbreaking.

                  Comment

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