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  • #16
    Originally posted by arabian View Post
    One thing that strikes me as odd is that you haven't had a conversation with your son to find out, from him, what his future plans are. He is an adult now and perhaps it is time to have an adult conversation with him. I'd ask him why he is registering in December and not at the start of the academic year? I would wan to know if he has met with an academic adviser from the college he is proposing he attend? What are his long-term career plans? What sort of part-time employment is he prepared to take up throughout year? If your son has little idea of why he is going to college then you will have your answer. I'd try to have this conversation asap in a neutral location free from distraction. You are much more likely to get honest answers if your son feels comfortable.


    In his original question on another thread he mentioned his son barely speaks to him, has failed to get the requisite credits and is not interested in attending school. He also cant work because his mother is on ODSP. This isnt a regular case where a parent is denying his kid the opportunity for an education. It looks more like mom is worried about losing her extra income so kid is enrolling but not completing school. Hes 19, has no high school degree and will now enroll in college and probably drop out.

    Personally, I would wait until she proves he has applied (with a receipt) or at least provides the full details. Failing that, no money. Then if he does go in September next year, tell them you will pay your portion of the expense when you have received his mid term marks.

    His mother is on ODSP, he qualifies for OSAP. Neither one of them have demonstrated good faith in this. To keep him registered part time in an alternative school to get full child support is unfair. Kid isn't working and therefore unable to pay his portion of post secondary. Moms portion will be slim to none. You're basically paying for them both to do nothing. Does that make me harsh? Probably but someone has to be the voice of reality.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by arabian View Post
      One thing that strikes me as odd is that you haven't had a conversation with your son to find out, from him, what his future plans are. He is an adult now and perhaps it is time to have an adult conversation with him. I'd ask him why he is registering in December and not at the start of the academic year? I would wan to know if he has met with an academic adviser from the college he is proposing he attend? What are his long-term career plans? What sort of part-time employment is he prepared to take up throughout year? If your son has little idea of why he is going to college then you will have your answer. I'd try to have this conversation asap in a neutral location free from distraction. You are much more likely to get honest answers if your son feels comfortable.
      EVERYTHING, as you've laid out has been something I've discussed NUMEROUS times with my partner, about the idea having this type of conversation. Unfortunately, the situation as it stands at present, is that my son is completely under his mother's care and control, I'm guessing both emotionally and financially (since he "can't" work). The last time he came with his mother and the time prior to that in around some time in July of 2015, he was very quiet. The mother did all of the talking. Both my partner and I surmise that trying to have any kind of conversation with him is not going to achieve much, if anything at all, duel to the fact that "mom" is only going to tell him what to say, and what NOT to say to me, so we'll never get the truth from him. Believe me, I am very much interested in doing whatever it is, that is within my ability to help my son out to becoming a productive member of society whichever way he chooses. I want for him to be better off than his lazy, useless and good-for-nothing mother at the very least. And if his mother truly cares about him, she should want that too. But I'm guessing not, even though she won't ever dare to admit it on record, if she loses him as a dependent, she loses her "lifestyle".

      ONE way to help him out, would be to have him come and reside with me and my partner. We have the space at our place. But we also know that Hell will freeze over before the mother would agree to that. Again, he moves in with me, she "loses" CS........

      Comment


      • #18
        He isn't your son. It her son, you just pay the bills.

        If it wasn't clear to you before it should be clear now.

        That's why anything less than shared results in the loss of parenthood.

        Comment


        • #19
          This is standard practice when someone is paying...

          Originally posted by rockscan View Post
          As I mentioned in my message, shes still being obtuse and I wouldnt be so quick to hand over anything. Why? Well if the testing and other fees are $500 why didnt she say that? All she said was the application is $500 so please add the money to the December cs amount. Also because she finally started giving you info when you cut off cs.

          I dont trust anyone who says they cant get a receipt. EVER. You never pay for anything without getting proof. Your ex has obviously been investigating this program and has been told by the school what has to happen. She can ask them for full documentation. This isnt 1920 where you have to go down the street to make a call. She can get the info emailed to her or the kids school counselor can get it. If we could find application fees and other info on the website SO CAN SHE.

          Tell her you want the full details of this application fee including details on the program he is applying for and expected outcomes. Failing that you will remit your share when the application is completed and she has a receipt for you.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by m-chan68 View Post
            EVERYTHING, as you've laid out has been something I've discussed NUMEROUS times with my partner, about the idea having this type of conversation. Unfortunately, the situation as it stands at present, is that my son is completely under his mother's care and control, I'm guessing both emotionally and financially (since he "can't" work). The last time he came with his mother and the time prior to that in around some time in July of 2015, he was very quiet. The mother did all of the talking. Both my partner and I surmise that trying to have any kind of conversation with him is not going to achieve much, if anything at all, duel to the fact that "mom" is only going to tell him what to say, and what NOT to say to me, so we'll never get the truth from him. Believe me, I am very much interested in doing whatever it is, that is within my ability to help my son out to becoming a productive member of society whichever way he chooses. I want for him to be better off than his lazy, useless and good-for-nothing mother at the very least. And if his mother truly cares about him, she should want that too. But I'm guessing not, even though she won't ever dare to admit it on record, if she loses him as a dependent, she loses her "lifestyle".

            ONE way to help him out, would be to have him come and reside with me and my partner. We have the space at our place. But we also know that Hell will freeze over before the mother would agree to that. Again, he moves in with me, she "loses" CS........
            I strongly recommend that you meet with your son one-on-one (not with the mother and certainly not with your girlfriend).

            I'd be the "bigger person" and make an overture to contact your son. You have absolutely no idea of what his living situation is like nor do you know his views on anything. You may not have had a relationship with your son all these years but it certainly isn't too late to try to establish some basic mutual respect for one another.

            I think you should deal with your son directly. Hopefully you have a secure enough relationship with your current partner to be able to do this. Your son may initially decline an offer to meet with you as you have no idea what BS he has been fed all these years. Keep an open mind. It might be extremely humiliating for him to be in the position he is in. You don't know.

            Comment


            • #21
              A case just released today on CanLii from Alberta. There are some similarities to your situation and some notable differences. This is from a hard-assessed judge. You might find it useful, or not:

              http://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abqb/doc...16abqb600.html

              Something else to consider (If I come across relevant case law I will post it)... you are university-educated and courts sometimes feel it is reasonable that children be given similar opportunities to achieve same level of education (I know, I know.. you probably did it without help of your parents....). Still, I know it is a consideration in some cases.

              My reason for bringing this up is that you should be aware of every pitfall you could face in the future. A good lawyer would be able to advise you further.
              Last edited by arabian; 10-26-2016, 07:07 PM.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by arabian View Post
                A case just released today on CanLii from Alberta. There are some similarities to your situation and some notable differences. This is from a hard-assessed judge. You might find it useful, or not:

                http://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abqb/doc...16abqb600.html

                Something else to consider (If I come across relevant case law I will post it)... you are university-educated and courts sometimes feel it is reasonable that children be given similar opportunities to achieve same level of education (I know, I know.. you probably did it without help of your parents....). Still, I know it is a consideration in some cases.

                My reason for bringing this up is that you should be aware of every pitfall you could face in the future. A good lawyer would be able to advise you further.
                First off, regarding the comment about being University educated, I don't know how you figured that because I am not. But I suppose I should take that as a compliment. I am actually employed in a trade profession, and have been for 25 years and counting now. Having said that, I would be curious to know what the courts would consider 'reasonable' regarding my son to have in regards to similar opportunity made available to him. If I know him, he's not going to be interested in any type of profession that requires manual labour.

                By the way, as of today, SHE'S BEEN SERVED.

                Keep the similar CanLii case links coming. It is a very interesting read.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Ahahaha...jumping to conclusions and making assumptions, no surprise there



                  Originally posted by m-chan68 View Post
                  First off, regarding the comment about being University educated, I don't know how you figured that because I am not. But I suppose I should take that as a compliment. I am actually employed in a trade profession, and have been for 25 years and counting now. Having said that, I would be curious to know what the courts would consider 'reasonable' regarding my son to have in regards to similar opportunity made available to him. If I know him, he's not going to be interested in any type of profession that requires manual labour.

                  By the way, as of today, SHE'S BEEN SERVED.

                  Keep the similar CanLii case links coming. It is a very interesting read.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by m-chan68 View Post
                    First off, regarding the comment about being University educated, I don't know how you figured that because I am not. But I suppose I should take that as a compliment. I am actually employed in a trade profession, and have been for 25 years and counting now. Having said that, I would be curious to know what the courts would consider 'reasonable' regarding my son to have in regards to similar opportunity made available to him. If I know him, he's not going to be interested in any type of profession that requires manual labour.

                    By the way, as of today, SHE'S BEEN SERVED.

                    Keep the similar CanLii case links coming. It is a very interesting read.
                    Your quote from May 25th: "Having been through college myself, I completely understand to dynamics...." I incorrectly assumed that your reference to "college" was meant to be university.

                    I guess your curiosity will be soon be sated.

                    One of the things that may be weighed and questioned is whether or not you or your son ended your relationship.

                    I have found this thread to be interesting. I look forward to hearing the outcome. Thank you for sharing.
                    Last edited by arabian; 10-27-2016, 11:13 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by hopefull View Post
                      Ahahaha...jumping to conclusions and making assumptions, no surprise there

                      Do you have something useful to add to this thread?

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by hopefull View Post
                        Ahahaha...jumping to conclusions and making assumptions, no surprise there
                        What exactly is your point? Assumptions about what, and directed to whom?

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by arabian View Post
                          Your quote from May 25th: "Having been through college myself, I completely understand to dynamics...." I incorrectly assumed that your reference to "college" was meant to be university.
                          Ahhh okay. In my profession, I had to go through an apprenticeship which entailed three college terms before I finally became licensed.

                          Originally posted by arabian View Post
                          One of the things that may be weighed and questioned is whether or not you or your son ended your relationship.

                          There's a very easy answer to that question. HE expressed to me very clearly that he no longer wanted to come on alternating weekends some time back in 2007. I don't remember the exact date. Nor do I know the reason for it. Nor do I know if his mother put him to or not.

                          What I am very curious about, is how courts and judges will regard the attitude that "children" want (demand???) the continued support of the paying parent and want NOTHING to do with them.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by m-chan68 View Post
                            Ahhh okay. In my profession, I had to go through an apprenticeship which entailed three college terms before I finally became licensed.


                            There's a very easy answer to that question. HE expressed to me very clearly that he no longer wanted to come on alternating weekends some time back in 2007. I don't remember the exact date. Nor do I know the reason for it. Nor do I know if his mother put him to or not.

                            What I am very curious about, is how courts and judges will regard the attitude that "children" want (demand???) the continued support of the paying parent and want NOTHING to do with them.
                            This could indeed be a problem for your ex. However, I'm not sure how much weight a judge will put on a 9-year-old (guessing the age) who lives with his mother and who expressed, as a child, desire to have nothing to do with the father. Was this a case of parental alienation? Some decisions I've read have judge merely making adult child responsible for communicating regularly with the payor parent about his/her academic plans and GPA and order the payment of CS as long as adult child maintain a certain GPA and attendance. Sometimes judges take pity on the child and direct parents to pay for tutoring while attending post-secondary institution. Other decisions I've read have ordered continued CS for adult child to similar level of education of parents. You attended a 'college' for your trade. The college your son proposes may or may not be in line with the education you received. What is the mother's education? Any post-secondary ('college' or 'university')? I've seen it mentioned in many decisions.

                            It's really a crap shoot. Others might have insight. If I see any more recent decisions I'll be sure to post them.

                            Again, thanks for sharing your experience.


                            This case was posted today: http://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abqb/doc...16abqb603.html
                            Last edited by arabian; 10-27-2016, 11:53 PM. Reason: addition of case

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by arabian View Post
                              This could indeed be a problem for your ex. However, I'm not sure how much weight a judge will put on a 9-year-old (guessing the age) who lives with his mother and who expressed, as a child, desire to have nothing to do with the father. Was this a case of parental alienation? Some decisions I've read have judge merely making adult child responsible for communicating regularly with the payor parent about his/her academic plans and GPA and order the payment of CS as long as adult child maintain a certain GPA and attendance. Sometimes judges take pity on the child and direct parents to pay for tutoring while attending post-secondary institution. Other decisions I've read have ordered continued CS for adult child to similar level of education of parents. You attended a 'college' for your trade. The college your son proposes may or may not be in line with the education you received. What is the mother's education? Any post-secondary ('college' or 'university')? I've seen it mentioned in many decisions.

                              It's really a crap shoot. Others might have insight. If I see any more recent decisions I'll be sure to post them.

                              Again, thanks for sharing your experience.


                              This case was posted today: http://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abqb/doc...16abqb603.html
                              In answer to your question highlighted in bold, that's a very good joke. If I'm not mistaken, she hasn't even completed high school herself, let alone post-secondary education. That said, if the courts expect our son to have a similar opportunity made available to him, SHE is definitely not a good role model.

                              Please clarify parental alienation. I've read it numerous times now, on these forums but I'm still unclear as to the exact definition. Is it when a parent prevents the child from any contact with the other parent?

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f...uations-13799/

                                Comment

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