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  • Wording advice

    How would you address this in an agreement.

    Mom and Dad finally sat down,and talked. Went really well. I am so happy they have reached this point in their relationship.

    They put down some tentative visitation dates, which progress over the next 5 years.

    One question though after the discussion on progressing summer access 2-3-4 then 5 weeks in the conversation dad mentioned that he will only have 3 weeks leave in the summer and for the rest of the summer he will only be back at his home for weekends.

    It does not make sense then for Dad to have 5 weeks in the summer if he will only be home for 3 and expects his spouse to take of son all week day and night and he come home for Sat and 1/2 of Sunday. So 1 night really

    he was vague on his exact plans. So Mom,wants a clause in the agreement to the effect that if Dad is not in direct overnight care of the child then the access will be limited to the actual leave period.

    Not sure if I am making myself clear. but I guess we are asking,why would you take,the child for 5 weeks when you will only be there for 3?

  • #2
    Originally posted by Beachnana View Post
    So Mom,wants a clause in the agreement to the effect that if Dad is not in direct overnight care of the child then the access will be limited to the actual leave period.
    This is known as a "right of refusal" and they are only a method of creating conflict. The other parent (your daughter) has no right to (a) ask where dad is and (b) who is caring for the child in his absence during HIS access time.

    These are not enforceable clauses and only cause grief. Judges never enforce them. I would avoid them at all costs. Here is what a much smarter person and qualified expert has to say about this very bad bad idea:

    Your Social Worker - Gary Direnfeld, MSW, RSW

    Originally posted by Beachnana View Post
    But I guess we are asking,why would you take,the child for 5 weeks when you will only be there for 3?
    Flipping the question why is it yours or the other parent's requirement to know (or feel you have the right) to know what is happening on the other parent's access time?

    Good Luck!
    Tayken

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    • #3
      Add to this, by the time he has five weeks access you dont know what the situation will be. He may be remarried, he may have more flexibility, he may have different hours.

      Thats assuming the graduated access is three to four years in the future. Any parent will need summer care during this time, kid could go to a day camp that week or possibly spend time with other family members.

      Its more beneficial to graduate the access time then to put limits or conditions on what is going to happen three years from now.

      Comment


      • #4
        Dad gets to handle it and make his arrangements how lever he feels is appropriate. It may be an opportunity for him to include extended family in the child's life, if he will be spending time with grandparents, step parenys or other family members which he is well within his rights to do on his time.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Beachnana View Post
          So Mom,wants a clause in the agreement to the effect that if Dad is not in direct overnight care of the child then the access will be limited to the actual leave period.
          Make sure Mom includes a clause where the child cannot be around a new girlfriend of Dad's unless the new girlfriend has been approved by Mom. Mom should also have a clause where she gets to inspect the bedroom provided for the child, so that she can withhold access if it is not acceptable.

          Finally, make sure that Mom gets to call from 9:30am-10:00am and 7:30pm-8:00pm every day during the summer break. It is important to ensure that Mom maintains a connection to the child during the long dark tea times of the soul.

          ...

          As an alternative, Mom can parent during her parenting time, and Dad can parent during his parenting time. Crazy I know, because Dad is a terrible and incompetent person who is going to bathe the child only twice a week and feed him oreos, but sometimes you just have to hope for the best.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Janus View Post
            Make sure Mom includes a clause where the child cannot be around a new girlfriend of Dad's unless the new girlfriend has been approved by Mom. Mom should also have a clause where she gets to inspect the bedroom provided for the child, so that she can withhold access if it is not acceptable.

            Finally, make sure that Mom gets to call from 9:30am-10:00am and 7:30pm-8:00pm every day during the summer break. It is important to ensure that Mom maintains a connection to the child during the long dark tea times of the soul.

            ...

            As an alternative, Mom can parent during her parenting time, and Dad can parent during his parenting time. Crazy I know, because Dad is a terrible and incompetent person who is going to bathe the child only twice a week and feed him oreos, but sometimes you just have to hope for the best.
            I have to admit. This got me laughing really hard. So hard my side hurts.

            Comment


            • #7
              Me too,actually !!

              Point taken. I was only asking what should be, if any, the wording to address this.

              Good to know about the "right of refusal" clause because that is what Dad had suggested should be in there.

              He is in the military and he also mentioned that if he is posted away he would have to change the arrangements. His wife ( newly married) had indicated she was good with 2-3 weeks in the summer. Dad has said he wants 5 weeks. So we did not want it written in stone that he has 5 weeks if Dad is not there and wife does not want 5 weeks.

              My daughter had suggested we figure that out if and when it happens. He had said he wanted it in writing on the order?


              But maybe I like Janus suggestion. Perhaps,they could actually just live together!

              Comment


              • #8
                Like Tayken...I LOL and might have choked on my tea. I mean seriously though? I have read some of your posts, and it seems between you and your daughter, you will rather have dad have no contact with the child.

                I mean, whatever happened to child's best interest? This is the angle this should be addressed from, with personal vendetta put aside in order to have a well rounded child, that grows up not having daddy issues.

                A new bf/gf /husband/wife will never replace a bio parent no matter what some people like to think, and kids aren't stupid.

                Originally posted by Beachnana View Post
                Me too,actually !!

                Point taken. I was only asking what should be, if any, the wording to address this.

                Good to know about the "right of refusal" clause because that is what Dad had suggested should be in there.

                He is in the military and he also mentioned that if he is posted away he would have to change the arrangements. His wife ( newly married) had indicated she was good with 2-3 weeks in the summer. Dad has said he wants 5 weeks. So we did not want it written in stone that he has 5 weeks if Dad is not there and wife does not want 5 weeks.

                My daughter had suggested we figure that out if and when it happens. He had said he wanted it in writing on the order?


                But maybe I like Janus suggestion. Perhaps,they could actually just live together!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Not true. Dad and child have a good relationship and that has been down to me and my daughter. It's been a rocky road, but it's working. I merely asked how we would word this situation.

                  If you have read my post here you will see that the question came up from Dad.m he wants it to be there but wants it to be a fluid relationship. If he has leave he wants the child with him but if he does not have enough leave availability or work prevents him from being there he wants to be able to opt out without it looking as though he is not taking his access.

                  Maybe it's a little to complicated to express and they need to just figure it out on a year by year basis.

                  Hirt and mistrust do not go away, ask LF32 and he will tell you that you might be getting along and moving forward but history will always be there and it takes a long time to heal.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The challenge is that the other parent is in the military. Your daughter is simply going to have to respect the fact that the other parent is providing a service to the country and be flexible.

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                    • #11
                      Actually both parents are in the Military. My daughter also serves our country. As child lives with her she has given up promotion and career opportunities to be able to stay in her current stable location.

                      But understood, hopefully they are now at that relationship point where they can work together.

                      She has just told him that and said its not something you can write into a order, it's something they need to work on together and she is finally at that place where she will be able to do this.

                      It's been a long 3 1/2 years but actually thanks to some of the posters on ODF I have been able to advise her and we all are moving to this better relationship.

                      Actually thanks Tayken at times you were harsh but your advice is sound and honest and you have helped.

                      Think we are done now, so good luck.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        What about wording around flexibility then? As in "by x date of each year, dad will provide mom with available weeks for access. Should dad not be able to access all weeks available, he reserves the right to make up this time via additional weekends or days through the final five months of the year"?

                        Or you could put in a general clause like many that should an opportunity be available to dad, mom will not refuse?

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                        • #13
                          Yes Rockscan. That is what is being drafted up.

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                          • #14
                            Your daughter seems reasonable and wants to have dad in her childs life. I think sometimes people forget how far she has come and how reasonable she wants to be.

                            Comment

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