Hockey. Is it considered a extraordinary expense?

[Beachnana]

http://www.nathenssiegel.com/2.pdf

This was an interesting read I found when trying to research if Hockey would be considered a Section 7 expense.

Situation is that Dad of son age 4 agreed to recreational hockey but now says he will not contribute anything except secondhand equipment from his stepsons, age 10 and 12,who he has paid to put in hockey.

He says all extra curricular expenses such as hockey is covered under CS as is all the clothes for school etc. i guess he was pissed that Mom called him out about passing off a packsac as a new purchase for his son, when in fact was her packsack he had refused to let her retrieve from his house some 2 years before. It still had her hair clips in it

So just wanted some opinions on whether we should pursue this or just chalk it up to a deadbeat Dad situation.

[HammerDad]

Hockey for a 4y/o child, I wouldn't consider it s7. The costs for equipment can be mitigated substantially as it isn't like a 4y/o needs top of the line equipment. That he has equipment that the child can use benefits both households, as it reduces costs for both parents.

I wouldn't chalk it up to deadbeat anything. The ex has offered equipment that, unless it is unwearable, is just as good anything. The kid is 4, and they are not Sidney Crosby yet.

edit - If the child was in a higher level and needed top of the line equipment, than it would be s7.

[Maggie82]

HammerDad is correct. Because hockey *can* have high costs associated with it, such as travel for rep games, extra practices and training at rep level, etc., it can become an S7 expense. But as long as it's houseleague and you can be reasonable about equipment (a full set of equipment for a 4yo costs $100 brand new at Canadian Tire) it would be a regular activity that could reasonably be covered by child support. Unless of course, the income of the parties are low in which case it might be considered a special or extraordinary expense. But what the line is for what is considered a reasonable amount of CS... who knows!

In our situation, Dad had a similar issue. The problem was that Mom registered Child in hockey without Dad's consent on Dad's time. Dad only sees Child every-other-weekend as there is a 150-km distance between homes and Mom registered Child in hockey that took place both Saturday and Sunday. Dad objected and refused to contribute to the expense. Mom took Dad to court over the matter. Dad "won" - he did not have to contribute to the expense and it was added to the order that Mom needs to make 'best efforts' to not register Child in activities and programs that occur on Dad's time, especially without Dad's consent.

Sometimes going to court to get a clearer order is a necessity.

[Beachnana]

Thanks. Good points. He did agree and did say he would split the cost but the changed his mind.

So yes, chalk it up to experience

[Beachnana]

But he did say he was happy to be involved in his sons hockey. He did say he wAnted to acquire all his equipment as he thought it would be a good bonding opportunity. His cousins are 8 his step sons 10 and 12. So doubtful if there will be anything to hand down. Plus he agreed to share cost 50/50.

Hockey is something most kids in our city go in. The fact he is willing to pay for someone elses kids but not his own is pretty petty and mean.

But its just typical of his attitude. He is all about money. Spends more on his phone, tv and internet then he does on CS.

So he would rather his son miss out then contribute.

Not a star Dad. I M O

[Berner_Faith]

Kids don't need brand new equipment, especially at 4 years old. They grow so fast, in my opinion buying brand new equipment is a waste. As long as the child has equipment who cares if it is used or hand me down. The child is four, is going to spend more time laying on the ice than actually 'playing' hockey.

This instance does not make dad a deadbeat, I see him as being resourceful and not wasting money. Whether he paid for his step kids is non of your business, that is a decision he made regarding his new family.

I assume he pays cs since you mentioned the costs being covered under his cs, therefore he doesn't owe any more

[Beachnana]

It has to fit! Dad said I will get the equipment, but did not. Mom was happy that Dad offered to acquire the used equipment. Sent a pair of too small skates, not sharpened, no skate guards. No other equipment. Rather doubt any more will arrive. And what he does with his new family is his business, but when his own son gets older do you not think he will question how comes his own .dad puts someone else's boys in hockey but refuses to contribute to his.

i hope he make s NHL the. dad can vuy his own ticket to see him!

[blinkandimgone]

How much is the cost of the activity? Hockey, even for young kids can be fairly expensive even before the equipment.

[Beachnana]

$290 registration fee
He has skates and helmet we bought him last year that fit.
I have ordered a complete hockey setup for 143 which should fit him for 2 years

[blinkandimgone]

Yeah...that works out to about $30/month, which isn't extraordinary especially if CS is being paid.

[Links17]

In Québec they say recreational expenses under 5% of CS are not consider special expenses

[Beachnana]

Okay so we understand its not consider Section 7 good to know.

In future she will not need to bother asking him if he agreeable. I guess Mom can make that decision on her own as she will be paying. However, she was under the impression he wanted to participate. He agreed, when she communicated about the hockey and costs, to pay 50%. Then suddendly he backs out. Not much staying power as a father goes!

But I guess its a slap in the face when she asked if he is agreeable to put the boy in hockey and he responded that he is agreeable but he wants to be " in control" of the equipment ( his words) and then he completely bales on his own child. No hockey equipment purchased new or second hand or acquired from his stepsons. Especially after declaring he knows all about putting boys in hockey as he has put his 2 step sons in hockey!

Just a shame thats all. Still he has his Grandad, his Mom and me!

[Links17]

Okay so we understand its not consider Section 7 good to know.

In future she will not need to bother asking him if he agreeable. I guess Mom can make that decision on her own as she will be paying. However, she was under the impression he wanted to participate. He agreed, when she communicated about the hockey and costs, to pay 50%. Then suddendly he backs out. Not much staying power as a father goes!

But I guess its a slap in the face when she asked if he is agreeable to put the boy in hockey and he responded that he is agreeable but he wants to be " in control" of the equipment ( his words) and then he completely bales on his own child. No hockey equipment purchased new or second hand or acquired from his stepsons. Especially after declaring he knows all about putting boys in hockey as he has put his 2 step sons in hockey!

Just a shame thats all. Still he has his Grandad, his Mom and me!

You have terrible attitude. If he is paying child support, it is something like 20% of his net income which goes to your daughter (someone he doesn't like). You act like he isn't contributing. I hope you aren't critical of him anywhere in the vicinity of his child(ren). Besides the fact he seems to have another family to support....

I could go on....

[ele110]

Since it is a 'grey' area, my feeling is that depends a bit on the amount of C/S paid and the financial resources of the mother.
Also, you need to ponder if the amount money is worth the agravation. Sometimes, spending few extra $$ could be money well spent it if it saves you the frustration and bad feelings. Even if it is not fair. This might be one of these situations.

[blinkandimgone]

Okay so we understand its not consider Section 7 good to know.

In future she will not need to bother asking him if he agreeable. I guess Mom can make that decision on her own as she will be paying. However, she was under the impression he wanted to participate. He agreed, when she communicated about the hockey and costs, to pay 50%. Then suddendly he backs out. Not much staying power as a father goes!

But I guess its a slap in the face when she asked if he is agreeable to put the boy in hockey and he responded that he is agreeable but he wants to be " in control" of the equipment ( his words) and then he completely bales on his own child. No hockey equipment purchased new or second hand or acquired from his stepsons. Especially after declaring he knows all about putting boys in hockey as he has put his 2 step sons in hockey!

Just a shame thats all. Still he has his Grandad, his Mom and me!

Whether or not it is considered an extraordinary expense, if it's something that would fall on any of his time with the kids it he should be consulted beforehand. And whether or not he is paying, he is entitled to attend the activity.