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  • #61
    Originally posted by arabian View Post
    So you think the rest of society should pay for the father's OOPS? Not a chance.

    You play, you pay.
    Thats a steep slope. Should society have to pay for a womans abortion because she had consentual sex and it resulted in a pregnancy?
    Should we have to pay for someones health care cost because they did something stupid? We pay for all kinds of "oops" as taxpayers. Why is it only ok to pay for it if the woman decides?

    Comment


    • #62
      I think one day we will live in a time that if a women is pregnant it will be a two person decision for birth or abortion and I will give you the analogy.
      __________________
      Everybody has Freedom of Speech

      EXCEPT

      where it negatively affects somebody else.

      _____________________

      Everybody has control on their body

      EXCEPT

      where it negatively affects something else

      _____________________

      A woman's freedom shouldn't infringe on a man's freedom, the decision to have intercourse doesn't imply the decision to have children. Clearly, it carries risks of pregnancy but it is the responsibility of everybody involved to mitigate and or counter those risks if they are reasonably able to.

      You can draw the parallel between that and going 2 man rowing trip. Your partner falls in the water you have an obligation to save them if you can do so without much harm to yourself. You both agreed to go rowing understanding there is a risk that either of you could fall in but there is the implicit understanding you will (where possible) help each other mitigate that risk.

      These are arguments are not politically correct, and given how child support props up so many women it will be a long time before you see anything progressive.

      Comment


      • #63
        Many women pay for their abortions. In fact I thought one had to pay for an abortion unless the pregnancy was deemed to be a danger to the mother (I really don't know)?

        Even if taxpayers pay for an abortion, it a negligible, one-time cost. You can hardly compare that with taxpayers paying the father's share of raising a child.

        No buddy, one has to bear the responsibility for their actions in this country. I suppose if you don't agree with it you could go to one of those countries in the middle east where women are treated worse than dogs. There a man can fornicate as much as he likes, with little or no dent to his pocketbook. Probably many countries out there who let men get away with this nonsense.

        That is what this is - nonsense.

        Comment


        • #64
          [QUOTE=Links17;155025]
          "A woman's freedom shouldn't infringe on a man's freedom, the decision to have intercourse doesn't imply the decision to have children. Clearly, it carries risks of pregnancy but it is the responsibility of everybody involved to mitigate and or counter those risks if they are reasonably able to." [I screwed up with the quote function]

          How ridiculous. How do you equate freedom with getting knocked up? It takes two to create a child. Some people do not, for religious reasons for example, accept abortion. The two had sex, got pregnant and now the man wants the woman to have an abortion. So you say that if she (for whatever reason) decides to keep the child, she should have to bear the full financial burden?

          You make the decision to have sex and risk pregnancy. You spin the wheel. You gambled and you lost. Why on earth would you think the female is ahead of the game? She is burdened with your child for the next 18 yrs.

          You seem to think that women are out to trap men into impregnating them so as to receive financial support. Yes there are some real losers out there. For every manipulative female using pregnancy as a way to gain income there is a man out shooting his load just to prove he's a man, with no conscience whatsoever.

          You create a child you are responsible for that child. If you are afraid the next girl you bed will manipulate you then you had better take the time to get to know her a bit better before you engage.

          Condoms break, people lie about birth control (men and women). This is not new.

          You play you can end up paying.

          Comment


          • #65
            Perhaps a polygamous lifestyle would suit you. You can knock up a variety of women and everyone pitches in and pays for each other's children. The women you impregnate do not list you as the father and instead go on welfare. That way you can have your cake and eat it too so-to-speak. You knock em up and the government gives them money yet you still get to have regular conjugal visits with them. The women will cook for you and wash your clothes as well.

            Comment


            • #66
              I went to school with a girl who's kid went to a house party with some kids up the street from their house at 17. He had about 3-4 beers and coming back..less than 5 miles from home...had an accident and killed the passenger he had in the car with him.

              He was young, smart, athletic, handsome and in a moment of stupidity he did something that will have consequences for the rest of his life and the lives of the family of the kid he killed.

              Decisions...even the ones we make while young...sometimes have lifelong consequences that you can't take back. Men have every right to make a decision to use protection when they decide to have sex...period. If they choose to neglect that, if a child is born, the child's right to support will be more important than anything else.

              Comment


              • #67
                Feminists fought long and hard to get to a point where women weren't dieing in back alleys from coat-hanger abortions.

                The only way, constitutionally, to achieve this, was to establish that a person had the right to control their own body.

                Links, I respect your reasoning, but to implement what you suggest would mean that other issues would have precedence over a person's right to control their own body.

                Just this week I was helping a student edit their essay, where they were arguing (inadvertantly) that the government would have the right to euthanize citizens and harvest their organs. I explained the logic of what they were saying, and horrific implications, and they saw my point and changed their thesis.

                Our control over our own bodies is essential, and other considerations have to be secondary. You are arguing to put economic considerations ahead of that right. I have to disagree.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by Mess View Post
                  Feminists fought long and hard to get to a point where women weren't dieing in back alleys from coat-hanger abortions.

                  The only way, constitutionally, to achieve this, was to establish that a person had the right to control their own body.


                  Our control over our own bodies is essential, and other considerations have to be secondary. You are arguing to put economic considerations ahead of that right. I have to disagree.
                  would it be fair to say that once a mans sperm leaves his body that he no longer has control over the little suckers? To me he has the right to control his own body but once those swimmers leave his body, he loses that control.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by standing on the sidelines View Post
                    would it be fair to say that once a mans sperm leaves his body that he no longer has control over the little suckers? To me he has the right to control his own body but once those swimmers leave his body, he loses that control.

                    If he no longer has any control over the little swimmers then why is he responsible for them? A sperm or an egg are just cells uptill they connect. The ensuing child is the responsibility of both parties, but why can only one party choose to change that? I understand the social reasons why a woman can and should be able to choose to have an abortion if she wishes, I just think that it is a double standard. It takes the responsibility off of women because if they make a mistake they can get rid of it, if a guy makes that exact same mistake they are at the will of someone else and what they wish to do.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      I'm just arguing this from a purely theoretical concept. I think the right to "control" your body is quite high on the list of rights but I think its abused because if one day having an abortion is as simple as taking a pill and "problem solved" but the person refuses to do it and instead entraps somebody else UNWILLING into a lifelong commitment. How much control over our own bodies do we really need, its like saying - "Even if lifting up my arm would save 10 lives, I should not be obliged to do it because its "my body""

                      There is a matter of scale, having a child is a life long commitment and before the commitment is fully realized women have the opportunity to respect the partner and not drag them into the commitment.

                      I agree if people have valid reasons (i.e: sincere religions or ethical) that they should not definitely be forced -[this is purely theoretical].

                      arabian, if you are very poor with no career prospects and you get knocked up by somebody even marginally wealthy you can get enough money off child support to you for up to 25 years - EVEN considering that you had to "work the job as a mother" its basically a job that people often do for free, has almost no chance of getting fired, generous breaks (10-3PM) while the children are in school etc.....

                      My ex-wife keeps telling me her job is being a stay at home mother to two full-time school aged children - Its completely bonkers but the reality is that is a job because she gets paid to stay at home and take care of the kids (and spousal support is awarded to compensated a woman for ongoing economic damage by having full custody).
                      Last edited by Links17; 11-12-2013, 11:01 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by fireweb13 View Post
                        If he no longer has any control over the little swimmers then why is he responsible for them?

                        Really? It would be the same reason a pet owner is held responsible for the pets actions once let off leash. The same reason that one is held responsible for what a bullet 'might' hit when it leaves their fired gun.


                        There's enough dead beat parents out there already. If you can't control your sperm once it leaves your body, then suit up and catch each drop, leash it, fire blanks, or just don't engage.
                        Last edited by OhMy; 11-12-2013, 11:01 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Links17 View Post
                          I'm just arguing this from a purely theoretical concept. I think the right to "control" your body is quite high on the list of rights but I think its abused because if one day having an abortion is as simple as taking a pill and "problem solved" but the person refuses to do it and instead entraps somebody else UNWILLING into a lifelong commitment.
                          Plan B - The Morning After Pill - Emergency Contraceptive Pill

                          You still can't force someone to go against their beliefs on abortion, regardless of how simple the procedure is.

                          I know many women who are against IUD use as they consider it essentially the same as having abortions regularly: it does not prevent fertilization of the egg, but creates an unwelcome atmosphere for the fertilized egg to attach itself to the uterus and so the fertilized egg is shed with the lining of the uterus.

                          You simply cannot force someone else to undergo an unwanted medical procedure, just as you would not want to be forced to undergo an unwanted medical procedure.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            How about forcing one to have a vasectomy if they want to sleep around and take no responsibility for 'possible outcomes'.

                            Maybe some folks never got the birds and the bees storey.



                            It would be nice it they could make a 'sterility pill' for men they could take daily to prevent unwanted pregnancy.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by OhMy View Post
                              How about forcing one to have a vasectomy if they want to sleep around and take no responsibility for 'possible outcomes'.

                              Maybe some folks never got the birds and the bees storey.



                              It would be nice it they could make a 'sterility pill' for men they could take daily to prevent unwanted pregnancy.
                              So true, however as we all know: sex sells. Therefore, R&D in the health and medical field will always be more devoted to Viagra.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by blinkandimgone View Post
                                You simply cannot force someone else to undergo an unwanted medical procedure, just as you would not want to be forced to undergo an unwanted medical procedure.
                                calling it a "medical" procedure is a stretch, and that is my point (I knew the pill existed) - its so EASY at this point in certain cases that when you weight the 2 options it is virtually criminal.

                                Option 1: Take Plan B

                                OR

                                Option 2: Bring a child in the world to an unwilling emotional/financial partner and codemn him to a 24 year emotional commitment with a 15-20% paycut.
                                _______

                                The abortion is ludicrously easy now, its almost criminal to choose option 2:

                                _____

                                Btw, I am a religious guy and I'm anti-abortion and I think guys in bang every girl they can are cruisin for trouble so they get what they deserve.

                                Comment

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