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  • Child support payor with no knowledge of child

    I've been mulling over this for a while, and haven't been able to find any relevant cases on Canlii for reference, so I was wondering what forum members thought of a situation like this:

    Assume that Party A & B are divorced, with a young (under 7 years old) child in the picture. B secures a court order that A pays $X in child support per month for the child. A duly complies.

    A continues making the child support payments without fail. Meanwhile, apart from informing A that B and the child have moved to such and such address and the child is attending school at such and such school, B ignores A's ever request for any information about the child, eg. school, health, activities. Let's assume that A does not have access for specific reasons and that's the way it's going to be.

    B is happy to collect the regular child support payments, but has pointedly decided to terminate all communications with A regarding the child and not provide any information at all.

    Short of A hiring a private investigator to try to obtain some basic information about the child and the child's life, how would A be able to know anything about the child's life at all? If this situation persists and the years go by, how would, for example (not to be morbid here, but ...) A know that the child is even still alive and well? What if, for example, the child met with an unfortunate fatal accident, or, perhaps runs away from home or goes missing, and B does not inform A of this, while continuing to collect child support as per usual?

    Perhaps this is an extreme situation, but I'd be interested to know other's thoughts on something like this, what whether anyone here is in or knows of anyone dealing with such a situation or the possibility of such a situation.

  • #2
    A can obtain an order that B be required to file documents such as report cards/etc with the court each year and the court will send them along to A. Though realistically I have never heard of such an extreme case before. Short of A having all parental rights terminated for trying to kill the child or B perhaps.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by NBDad View Post
      A can obtain an order that B be required to file documents such as report cards/etc with the court each year and the court will send them along to A. Though realistically I have never heard of such an extreme case before. Short of A having all parental rights terminated for trying to kill the child or B perhaps.
      Perhaps it is not so extreme if you think about it: how do you "force"/compel another person to provide information if they simply do not wish to or do everything in their power not to?

      In this case, for instance, if A does obtain an order like you mentioned, and B simply does not comply and perhaps even secretly moves away without A finding out (and by the time A finds out it is too late), what are the ramifications for B and options available to A?

      Comment


      • #4
        Contempt of court. Emergency motions. Mandatory counselling at B's expense. Temporary termination of CS pending compliance with the court.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by NBDad View Post
          Contempt of court. Emergency motions. Mandatory counselling at B's expense. Temporary termination of CS pending compliance with the court.
          So let’s say 2 years passes by since the court order was issued. A has paid the required support each month. In the 2 years, not a peep from B except confirmation that B has received child support payments through online electronic means. A requests education and health information from B. Two months later, still complete radio silence from B.

          At what point does A file a motion, and on what grounds? How do you say to a court “my ex spouse has refused to communicate anything to me with regards to our child for X years, do something (do what?)”? Is that even sufficient grounds for some kind of emergency motion, or does A have to wait another 2-3 years while the paperwork winds itself through court only to have the conclusion that B is still not communicating, cannot be located, and nothing about the child is known ... so then what?

          Comment


          • #6
            I think you could file a motion for disclosure of information related to the child. That would include information from health records, school grades etc. But I am guessing that this parent has no idea where they live, and that information will not be included.

            If A had joint custody, they A can request information from the child's family doctor etc under Freedon of information. Actually, they could just file a FOI request with OHIP, and with the loal school board.

            Think outside the box....

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by billiechic View Post
              I think you could file a motion for disclosure of information related to the child. That would include information from health records, school grades etc. But I am guessing that this parent has no idea where they live, and that information will not be included.

              If A had joint custody, they A can request information from the child's family doctor etc under Freedon of information. Actually, they could just file a FOI request with OHIP, and with the loal school board.

              Think outside the box....
              In this situation, B has sole custody. B has, for example, refused to provide the name of the child's family doctor, and other related information.

              Comment


              • #8
                I believe you can file a form 20 then (Request for Information)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by billiechic View Post
                  I believe you can file a form 20 then (Request for Information)
                  A Form 20 can certainly be filed. But if no response is received it still leads to the same issue/problem as outlined above:

                  Originally posted by Exquizique View Post
                  In the 2 years, not a peep from B except confirmation that B has received child support payments through online electronic means. A requests education and health information from B. Two months later, still complete radio silence from B.

                  At what point does A file a motion, and on what grounds? How do you say to a court “my ex spouse has refused to communicate anything to me with regards to our child for X years, do something (do what?)”? Is that even sufficient grounds for some kind of emergency motion, or does A have to wait another 2-3 years while the paperwork winds itself through court only to have the conclusion that B is still not communicating, cannot be located, and nothing about the child is known ... so then what?
                  Not trying to be argumentative here, just trying to work it out, and really appreciate different perspectives and angles of looking at the situation.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    You have to go through all the steps. You have to keep trying for access and info. There is no short cut. It will take time for the court to decide what is really going on.

                    There is a a reason she is not responding to you. Only you know that reason and if you can't reveal it, you aren't going to get any different advice.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by billiechic View Post

                      There is a a reason she is not responding to you. Only you know that reason and if you can't reveal it, you aren't going to get any different advice.
                      IMHO, the reason behind why B is not responding to requests for information on the child from the other parent is irrelevant. Just like it's irrelevant whether A wants to or likes paying child support or not.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Exquizique View Post
                        IMHO, the reason behind why B is not responding to requests for information on the child from the other parent is irrelevant. Just like it's irrelevant whether A wants to or likes paying child support or not.
                        Yes, it is irrelevant. But someone may be able to provide more advice if there was a reason.
                        For example:
                        ---There is a no-contact order between A and B
                        ---B has a history of mental illness which may be affecting B's perceptions and choices
                        ---there was abuse (spousal or child) and B wants nothing to do with A

                        I'm sure there are many other reasons this could be happening. But if B want advice related to the situation, then providing some info about the history of the relationship between A and B may help.

                        There are exceptions where the court will not require that the "normal" communication channels be open. Only B knows if this is one of those.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          If 2 years have passed since communicating with the custodial parent, and all you are looking for is an update on the child, then there is no "emergency" per se. (thus no need for an emergency motion).

                          The fact that the non-custodial parent has chosen not to have contact, or does not wish to have contact, or is unable to have contact (for various reasons), is irrelevant to his/her child support obligations....
                          (just because you dont see the child, does not mean that the child no longer exists)...

                          If you do not know how to locate the custodial parent and have no contact information for him/her, then start searching online. Use Facebook, old email addresses, old usernames, and see what you can find. Failing that, you may need to hire a private investigator.

                          Or... if you can prove to the court that you have exhausted every avenue in trying to locate this person, and have been unsucessful... you may be granted permission to file an ex-parte Motion... or have them served via your local newspaper.

                          Even if you cannot see your child... you are still entitled to inquire about his/her wellbeing...

                          Good Luck!!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by billiechic View Post
                            Yes, it is irrelevant. But someone may be able to provide more advice if there was a reason.
                            For example:
                            ---There is a no-contact order between A and B
                            ---B has a history of mental illness which may be affecting B's perceptions and choices
                            ---there was abuse (spousal or child) and B wants nothing to do with A

                            I'm sure there are many other reasons this could be happening. But if B want advice related to the situation, then providing some info about the history of the relationship between A and B may help.

                            There are exceptions where the court will not require that the "normal" communication channels be open. Only B knows if this is one of those.
                            Very good points billiechic, and history does provide context. However, in this situation, i'm simply looking at the fact at, all things being equal, if one party has the obligation to pay child support while the other party has the obligation to provide information about the child that they are receiving support for, what recourse does the former have if the latter simply will not (not cannot, but will not) fulfill their obligation.

                            As representingself later mentions:

                            Originally posted by representingself View Post
                            The fact that the non-custodial parent has chosen not to have contact, or does not wish to have contact, or is unable to have contact (for various reasons), is irrelevant to his/her child support obligations....
                            To which I totally agree.

                            As is the case with:

                            Originally posted by representingself View Post
                            Even if you cannot see your child... you are still entitled to inquire about his/her wellbeing...
                            And entitled to RECEIVE said information, if I may add.

                            So what then if the only party (the custodial parent in this case) able and obligated to provide this information simply outright refuses to?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Exquizique View Post
                              And entitled to RECEIVE said information, if I may add.

                              So what then if the only party (the custodial parent in this case) able and obligated to provide this information simply outright refuses to?
                              If B is required to provide the information it is not an option. If the requirement is in the way of a court order B is in contempt and there can be serious repercussions to those who are found in contempt of court.

                              B has to let the court know there is a problem.

                              The court system is there for a reason and even if they won't change access or decision making ability (for what ever reason) they can change legal custody so that A can go to the school board directly and request the student file as a means to gain access to the information A is looking for, or go to OHIP and see what doctors have been charging for services to the child, and request medical files from those doctors. The information is out there.

                              I think talking about "what if B doesn't comply?" isn't the way to approach the situation. If B IS REQUIRED to disclose certain information then the situation is solvable.

                              SD

                              Comment

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