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  • Amending Claims - and a lesson learned

    Trial Scheduling was August 2019.

    After this the other side pulled some stunts like refusing to collaborate on a Statement of Agreed facts. They insisted ONLY their facts would be accepted. Seriously.

    A few months later after more breaches of the parenting plan I sent them an amended response with some important revisions to the parenting plan and requested consent. They flipped out. I filed a motion under Rule 12 to have the amendment accepted. Judge had not read the file and launched into me about how the Family Law Rules are superseded by the Civil Procedure Rules and that my claims (he took about a minute to read them) were basically a new lawsuit and that serious cost consequences would result if they had to do all the unnecessary legal work to prepare. They are already fully prepared because these issues have been flying back and forth forever. Lesson learned, I withdrew. So they send me a huge bill for full indemnity costs with the usual massive threats. I call the clerk (they know me now and like me there). Clerk asks the judge who says they can send their written submission for costs and then I have 14 days to reply in writing. That will be after the trial at this point. My arguments is the refusal to collaborate on a SAF made it necessary to revise the response with new facts that they refused and material events had occurred after the Trial Scheduling. If I am wrong I'll eat the fees once the judge rules on the written submissions. (Another year of tuition gone to this lawyer.) Final Conference is on Tuesday and I will be asking the judge there about the Statement of Agreed Facts nonsense.

    SO, my question is
    How can I get these revised claims in at trial?
    Do I draft theses as individual motions and then submit to the judge over the bench?
    Or draft all of them together?
    Or do it verbally?
    If verbally one at a time or all together?
    These revisions are not frivolous or vexacious (IMHO)

  • #2
    Originally posted by Abba435 View Post
    Trial Scheduling was August 2019.

    After this the other side pulled some stunts like refusing to collaborate on a Statement of Agreed facts. They insisted ONLY their facts would be accepted. Seriously.

    A few months later after more breaches of the parenting plan I sent them an amended response with some important revisions to the parenting plan and requested consent. They flipped out. I filed a motion under Rule 12 to have the amendment accepted. Judge had not read the file and launched into me about how the Family Law Rules are superseded by the Civil Procedure Rules and that my claims (he took about a minute to read them) were basically a new lawsuit and that serious cost consequences would result if they had to do all the unnecessary legal work to prepare. They are already fully prepared because these issues have been flying back and forth forever. Lesson learned, I withdrew. So they send me a huge bill for full indemnity costs with the usual massive threats. I call the clerk (they know me now and like me there). Clerk asks the judge who says they can send their written submission for costs and then I have 14 days to reply in writing. That will be after the trial at this point. My arguments is the refusal to collaborate on a SAF made it necessary to revise the response with new facts that they refused and material events had occurred after the Trial Scheduling. If I am wrong I'll eat the fees once the judge rules on the written submissions. (Another year of tuition gone to this lawyer.) Final Conference is on Tuesday and I will be asking the judge there about the Statement of Agreed Facts nonsense.

    SO, my question is
    How can I get these revised claims in at trial?
    Do I draft theses as individual motions and then submit to the judge over the bench?
    Or draft all of them together?
    Or do it verbally?
    If verbally one at a time or all together?
    These revisions are not frivolous or vexacious (IMHO)
    You really should get a lawyer. You are getting into some very complex stuff.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Tayken View Post
      You really should get a lawyer. You are getting into some very complex stuff.
      International Financial Reporting Standards are complex.
      Off balance sheet financing with in substance defeasance is complex.
      Transfer pricing is complex.

      This has some logic but the playing field is not level to say the least..

      My wish from this forum is for those that have the knowledge and experience to share exactly that. And to be empathetic.

      Thanks.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Abba435 View Post
        My wish from this forum is for those that have the knowledge and experience to share exactly that. And to be empathetic.
        I've never understood why empathy matters. If somebody has the information, I want that information. I don't care how it is delivered. Especially if that person is a stranger at a keyboard.


        International Financial Reporting Standards are complex.
        Off balance sheet financing with in substance defeasance is complex.
        Transfer pricing is complex.
        Flexing, I like it

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Abba435 View Post
          International Financial Reporting Standards are complex.
          Off balance sheet financing with in substance defeasance is complex.
          Transfer pricing is complex.
          Accounting, finance and tax can be easy, or not, depending on the issues at play. As you've noted above.

          Family law can be easy, or complex, depending on the issues at play.

          Your case has complexity. Get a lawyer. Your case is beyond what this forum can reliably provide feedback on.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Janus View Post
            I've never understood why empathy matters. If somebody has the information, I want that information. I don't care how it is delivered. Especially if that person is a stranger at a keyboard.




            Flexing, I like it
            Agreed on keeping to the facts, so why say things like grow up to people you don't know?
            This arena is not insurance companies suing each other or government chasing your taxes. It is about people, families, kids, loads of emotion adn yes empathy is central.
            If not then stick to the facts

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Kinso View Post
              Accounting, finance and tax can be easy, or not, depending on the issues at play. As you've noted above.

              Family law can be easy, or complex, depending on the issues at play.

              Your case has complexity. Get a lawyer. Your case is beyond what this forum can reliably provide feedback on.
              Fair comment.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Abba435 View Post
                Agreed on keeping to the facts, so why say things like grow up to people you don't know?
                This arena is not insurance companies suing each other or government chasing your taxes. It is about people, families, kids, loads of emotion adn yes empathy is central.
                If not then stick to the facts


                The problem is that there are a lot of people who grandstand in this forum or expect us all to give them unwarranted sympathy. Most of the main commenting folk on this forum have been through the process, have seen what the game is like and know that the emotional aspect of it gets you nowhere. There are a number of senior members here (Janus being one of them) who have excellent bullshit meters and call it the way it needs to be called not just how they see it. You may not like it but its an anonymous forum and people are experienced here. If you want empathy, a pat on the back, accolades or a shoulder to cry on, see a therapist. If you want information, advice and/or answers, you will get it with a good dose of reality.

                Many new posters need to take a chill pill and remember that. Otherwise when you get in front of a judge and they blast you worse than we did, you will be in for a huge reality check.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by rockscan View Post
                  The problem is that there are a lot of people who grandstand in this forum or expect us all to give them unwarranted sympathy. Most of the main commenting folk on this forum have been through the process, have seen what the game is like and know that the emotional aspect of it gets you nowhere. There are a number of senior members here (Janus being one of them) who have excellent bullshit meters and call it the way it needs to be called not just how they see it. You may not like it but its an anonymous forum and people are experienced here. If you want empathy, a pat on the back, accolades or a shoulder to cry on, see a therapist. If you want information, advice and/or answers, you will get it with a good dose of reality.

                  Many new posters need to take a chill pill and remember that. Otherwise when you get in front of a judge and they blast you worse than we did, you will be in for a huge reality check.
                  It is your choice to respond or simply ignore posts you find to be grandstanding or whiny. Your value add is your experience and knowledge. Same for other senior members. For me, some empathy and if appropriate sympathy is fine. I don't need it, but I also don't need name calling. Advice and experience are most welcomed.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Abba435 View Post
                    why say things like grow up to people you don't know?
                    Why did you tell us about your wife's hurt feelings? Why would any of us care?

                    I notice that you have not really gone down that route since. You did grow up!

                    It is about people, families, kids, loads of emotion and yes empathy is central.
                    Weirdly enough, I think that I am empathetic. That's why I have to take breaks from this forum every now and then.

                    I'm just not sympathetic.

                    I'm also political. I want good fathers to win in court, and I want bad fathers (or good fathers with lousy cases) to stop going to court. My initial impression of you was that you were a father with an high focus on self. Those types are often bad. I'm still not convinced that I was wrong.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Janus View Post
                      Why did you tell us about your wife's hurt feelings? Why would any of us care?

                      I notice that you have not really gone down that route since. You did grow up!



                      Weirdly enough, I think that I am empathetic. That's why I have to take breaks from this forum every now and then.

                      I'm just not sympathetic.

                      I'm also political. I want good fathers to win in court, and I want bad fathers (or good fathers with lousy cases) to stop going to court. My initial impression of you was that you were a father with an high focus on self. Those types are often bad. I'm still not convinced that I was wrong.
                      If you choose to share useful information then that is more than welcome.
                      Your opinions such as this are lacking complete information and are therefore exactly as you say focussed on you not others.
                      You do not know me so any judgement such as this is irrelevant.
                      My kids think I am a great father and that is what matters to me.
                      Thanks for the input.

                      Comment

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