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  • Joint Custody w/ Final Say

    Hi all,

    It's been a while since I've logged in. Just as an update- the OCL took our case. We've had our initial intakes and I have completed the in-home observation. I think it's going well? We'll see. We probably won't have our disclosure meeting until October or November, after my ex has completed his PAR course and maybe we've tried co-parent counseling.

    I want to give mediation another go (with a male mediator ). I would like to offer Joint Custody with final say to me...the idea is that I completely agree that ex should be involved in the day to day decision making that affects our daughter...what I don't want is a fight about everything- and him to use this as a way to create conflict (which is his M.O.).

    Do any of you have this arrangement? How does it work for you?

  • #2
    Originally posted by iona6656 View Post
    Hi all,

    It's been a while since I've logged in. Just as an update- the OCL took our case. We've had our initial intakes and I have completed the in-home observation. I think it's going well? We'll see. We probably won't have our disclosure meeting until October or November, after my ex has completed his PAR course and maybe we've tried co-parent counseling.

    I want to give mediation another go (with a male mediator ). I would like to offer Joint Custody with final say to me...the idea is that I completely agree that ex should be involved in the day to day decision making that affects our daughter...what I don't want is a fight about everything- and him to use this as a way to create conflict (which is his M.O.).

    Do any of you have this arrangement? How does it work for you?
    So essentially you want sole custody, because that is what it amounts to.

    Comment


    • #3
      Why not wait to see what OCL says in their recommendations? Then go from there.

      Comment


      • #4
        You van compromise on final say topics. Ex: school, you choose, religion, he chooses etc

        Also for time sharing, ex gets to choose on even years and you choose odd years etc.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by kate331 View Post
          Why not wait to see what OCL says in their recommendations? Then go from there.
          Oh- I definitely will. But it's a term that's been floated by the lawyers A LOT...so I wanted to know what others thought of it- and how it's worked out.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by HammerDad View Post
            So essentially you want sole custody, because that is what it amounts to.
            Essentially, yes.

            Comment


            • #7
              Joint vs sole is about the big decisions like what school, religion and medical (sort of, because if you disagree on medical and take it to court then the court is going to go with acceptable medical practice as defined by medical professionals, not 1 parents wacky home remedy unsupport d by science)

              Day to day you don’t have to agree on, even if you have joint custody. While it’s a nice idea, it’s not necessary or worth fighting in court over. A judge doesn’t care if you each have different rules on bedtime or tv watching. That is not what joint custody is about

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by youngdad91 View Post
                I wouldn't agree to that if I was your ex. I would continue to go for joint. Joint custody with final say is still sole custody. It's just a way of sugar coating the term sole custody to try and fool the other person into agreement by some lawyers who think they're smart.

                OCL in my case recommended sole custody to mom based on same ridiculous argument as yours, my lawyer and I filed a dispute and the mother has now agreed to joint custody and 50/50 access, something our conference judge was in support of.

                Don't worry too much about what the OCL recommends. Their recommendations don't make sense and they miss a lot of critical information and get many things wrong. It's kind of sad to see what quality of work you get for the crazy amounts of money these OCL "professionals" get paid to do. They also have a real tendency to play favourites and be biased towards one parent.
                I think each assessor is different. The one we have is VERY impartial. She literally never even blinked when I told her about the DV stuff. She gives no indication that she even believes it..mind you- I'm pretty mater of fact about it and just keep it moving and talk about our daughters needs, etc. And actually she's even asked questions like "is it possible that in caring for your daughter who has special needs, you tended to shut out (X)?"- it's pretty obvious that she gets both sides of the story.

                I've sort of seen posts about your case- and I think our cases are very different. I don't recall you mentioning anything about DV or criminal proceedings. Also- I'm pretty sure you were paying CS too.

                So my argument isn't actually ridiculous. Where there's been a power imbalance in the past- and esp. in cases of DV- co-parenting usually does not work.

                I am also open to parallel parenting like denbigh suggested- I make decisions about health, him about school, we are both the same religion so that's not an issue.

                Comment


                • #9
                  If your daughter has special needs and depending what they are, health & education may be "tied" together. For example a child who has ADD or ADHD and is getting medical treatment for it would definitely tie into his/her educational plan. Same with therapy and schooling for an Autistic child. I'm not sure if a parallel parenting plan would work. I currently have default joint as we don't have a custody agreement, and chasing down the ex to get medical and/or school papers signed can be challenging at times. I think it comes down to how cooperative the two of you are.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by kate331 View Post
                    If your daughter has special needs and depending what they are, health & education may be "tied" together. For example a child who has ADD or ADHD and is getting medical treatment for it would definitely tie into his/her educational plan. Same with therapy and schooling for an Autistic child. I'm not sure if a parallel parenting plan would work. I currently have default joint as we don't have a custody agreement, and chasing down the ex to get medical and/or school papers signed can be challenging at times. I think it comes down to how cooperative the two of you are.
                    Yeah, unfortunately they are tied together somewhat. My daughter has really severe eczema (infected skin, scratching till she bleeds, etc) and food allergies (twice anaphylactic reactions + contact allergic to dairy). Your scenario is exactly my fear, even registering her for preschool was an ordeal involving consent orders and settlement conferences. In general we are on the same page...but he honestly wants to make me beg. I researched 4 preschools (to see who was willing to deal with her allergies)- and presented him with the best one (plus the others)- I asked him his thoughts and opinion (through our lawyers)....he said he wanted one closer in between the houses- I said sure- but which one? He was given 3 weeks to do some research and present some options....nothing. I had to chase down his lawyer so she wouldn't lose her spot. If I want to make a dentist appointment- and ask for his availability, I get radio silence. After it's made, he'll ask it be changed to accommodate his schedule....and now I'm venting. Thank you for the insight- I guess I just am looking for some type of solution.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I think your going to have to put some boundaries in place by either agreeing to separate so
                      W tasks or just offer to include, set a deadline and if doesn’t get back to you jut awake appointment and go. Like the dentist. I’d say need to m ow what is your preferred date by such and such and if doesn’t get back to you then just make the appointment at your convenience, let him know and then if he complains say you have him h Tim aug a time to let you k ow, he didn’t and don’t hanged the appointment to accommodate him. Most marri d parents do not attend every doctor and dentist appointment together

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The onus also has to be on the other parent to answer back requests in a reasonable time frame i.e. 24 hours via email. While I was going through this the first year of separation, our CAS worker gave me the advice that I shouldn't be informing him of every little detail that he needed to be making his own inquires to the schools, drs etc should he want to stay involved and have input. IMO routine visits to Dr's & Dentist should be made by the parent who is available to take them, in our case its always me Specialist appointments are normally booked so far in advance both parents would have amble time to accommodate their work schedules. My ex does attend some of those.

                        Here is my vent 1: Our son attends a special needs school, contact and feed back is vital from both parents and caregivers. I attend all meetings and when I absolutely cant send in a family member or reschedule. My ex only comes to the "big" meetings, where decisions are made for example, a placement in the following years school, we spend half the meeting with team of professionals just trying to catch him up to speed. It does frustrate me.

                        Still venting... I also feel that a parent with that does not have equal access does not understand the daily needs of their child and therefore cannot make an informed decision. I get this a lot at appointments from my ex "this behaviour doesnt happen with me" must be something Mom is doing wrong.

                        Thats said, I will be asking for Sole Custody but if I dont get it, its not a mountain I will die on, or spend legal fees on.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by youngdad91 View Post
                          There were allegations of DV to the police, CAS, police were involved, etc, but no police charges were ever laid and no restraining order was granted to her. Despite this, CAS still thought I was abusive to her and was only involved to help mom with her court case.



                          Is there a final order for custody in which he has agreed to pay CS ?




                          Power imbalance refers to the term sole custody. The past isn't always a good indicative of the future. IS there any definite proof of DV? Is he found guilty in criminal courts ? Does he pull a knife on you everytime do two do an exchange ?

                          Actually, our cases are quite similar. Mom wants to separate, calls the cops to remove dad and get status quo of child, then goes to court for sole custody and full guideline child support, alleging DV. The only difference was I wasn't charged with anything. Hopefully those charges get dropped.
                          I'm hoping you don't actually mean you hope HIS charges get dropped. Because that would be a batshit crazy thing for you to say when you don't actually know what he was charged with.

                          You should try to get some therapy for your anger.

                          And yes- he was charged. And just to let you know the seriousness of his offence- normally they process the offender and they're let out on a promise to appear. What he did was so heinous they actually kept him overnight and his sister had to sign as his surety.

                          And yes- he was offered a plea, whereby he admits to what was done and said- he took that. So guilty? Yes. Will he get a record? I hope he does not. As he agreed to take PAR and sign a peace bond because I'm hoping he's not a complete idiot. There is a history of DV- and IF it came to a criminal trial - I don't think he would risk his credibility against mine. Plus- I'm a lawyer- I quite understand how hard it is to prosecute uttering death threats. But once you utter it against a toddler- well, basically the crown says 'fuck you'. Which is what they should do.

                          As to child support- let me get this clear, your position is that a parent shouldn't take ANY financial responsibility unless the court orders them to? Way to take care of your kid. I can clearly see how you want whats best for your kid.

                          An example- we have a consent order that says both parents want her to attend a Montessori pre-school. I've kept him involved...but now that it's actually time to pay for preschool- is he? does he care about getting her ready or being involved with her schooling? that's a big no..like you- he thinks it's necessary for a court to tell him to take some financial responsibility for his kid.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Just a reminder that attacking other posters isn't allowed. Let's keep the thread on topic and replies relevant. Thanks a bunch!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by youngdad91 View Post


                              He can agree to a less serious charge in his plea bargain. So there may be no findings of assault
                              Plea bargaining to a lesser charge does not change the actual behaviour that took place.

                              While I am a proponent of shared physical custody and joint legal custody, there are some circumstances which make joint legal not the ideal situation. Serious domestic violence imho is one of them.

                              Comment

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