Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

does the status / reputation of the lawyer determines the result?

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • does the status / reputation of the lawyer determines the result?

    I've ready many times that you should hire the best lawyer you can afford. My question is mostly for fathers since moms usually get what they want (relatively) more easily.

    So the more expensive the lawyer is, the better result you get? in other words, if your ex (or STBX) has a better lawyer, you are basically screwed? For example, hypothetically, if the lawyer of your ex is the Chair of the Ontario Bar Association, and your lawyer is just a member of the Ontario Bar Association, do you still get a fair deal?

    let's say even if I can find a trustworthy capable lawyer, if the lawyer has to go up against his / her boss in court, does she / he stand a chance?

  • #2
    No, it's not so cut and dried as that. Maybe back in the 19th century.

    There are good, inexpensive lawyers, and bad high priced ones. There are also lawyers who are competent but they are a bad fit for you. My first lawyer was very aggressive, and could kick ass in court because she has a kick ass personality. But I found her to be overly aggressive with her points when meeting with me, she wasn't listening, ignored or forgot what I wanted and focused on her own ideas. Unfortunately some of her ideas would have put me at risk down the line and I had to become a lot harder with her and really work to impose my decisions.

    That's one example, and it can be really hard if you are already stressed, exhausted and feeling beaten down from dealing with your ex.

    Some lawyers are going to be better at litigation. Others better at negotiation. Be clear about what your own approach is from the start. You might be best off getting a negotiator at the start, and then switching to a hard-assed litigator if it falls apart.

    It is really tough to do, but you have to stay on top of your own case. Don't just sit back and let your lawyer do it all for you. At the same time, listen to your lawyer. If your expectations are unrealistic, if your arguments are irrelevant, listen to your lawyer point this out. You are a team, you have to work together.

    As far as "the best you can afford" take this with a grain of salt. The beginning of any case is just a lot of paperwork and financial calculations and you get an intern who's a year out of law school to do that for you for $100 per hour. If you are hiring a larger firm, don't be afraid to ask/insist on an arrangement like that, and tell the senior lawyer you are having a consultation with that you will switch to them if negotiations go south.

    Lawyers have very strick conflict of interest rules. They won't "go up against their boss" in court. Even if you fire your lawyer and your ex walks in a month later, your ex can't hire a different lawyer from the same firm.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Mess View Post
      No, it's not so cut and dried as that. Maybe back in the 19th century.

      There are good, inexpensive lawyers, and bad high priced ones. There are also lawyers who are competent but they are a bad fit for you. My first lawyer was very aggressive, and could kick ass in court because she has a kick ass personality. But I found her to be overly aggressive with her points when meeting with me, she wasn't listening, ignored or forgot what I wanted and focused on her own ideas. Unfortunately some of her ideas would have put me at risk down the line and I had to become a lot harder with her and really work to impose my decisions.

      That's one example, and it can be really hard if you are already stressed, exhausted and feeling beaten down from dealing with your ex.

      Some lawyers are going to be better at litigation. Others better at negotiation. Be clear about what your own approach is from the start. You might be best off getting a negotiator at the start, and then switching to a hard-assed litigator if it falls apart.

      It is really tough to do, but you have to stay on top of your own case. Don't just sit back and let your lawyer do it all for you. At the same time, listen to your lawyer. If your expectations are unrealistic, if your arguments are irrelevant, listen to your lawyer point this out. You are a team, you have to work together.

      As far as "the best you can afford" take this with a grain of salt. The beginning of any case is just a lot of paperwork and financial calculations and you get an intern who's a year out of law school to do that for you for $100 per hour. If you are hiring a larger firm, don't be afraid to ask/insist on an arrangement like that, and tell the senior lawyer you are having a consultation with that you will switch to them if negotiations go south.

      Lawyers have very strick conflict of interest rules. They won't "go up against their boss" in court. Even if you fire your lawyer and your ex walks in a month later, your ex can't hire a different lawyer from the same firm.
      thanks for your input, Mess! well, I wasn't clear when I said "go up against their boss", what I meant with my example was, the Chair of the Ontario Bar Association vs a member of the Ontario Bar Association. they don't work at the same law firm, but they do belong to a same association where there is a hierarchy. Probably the Chair of that association has a better relationship with judges already which could affect the outcome, perhaps? I certainly don't hope so, but I don't know enough about what's actually going on amongst the lawyers.

      Comment


      • #4
        I know that most, if not all, lawyers would disagree with me on this point BUT the difference between a good lawyer and the great lawyer is sometimes intimidation. I know for a fact that when I went through all of my court proceedings 9 years ago that my lawyer was, (for the lack of better words), terrified of my wifes.

        I heard comments such as "ya, he is very good" and "he certainly knows what he is doing". Did this influence the outcome? I am not sure. I do know that my lawyer felt that he was fighting uphill and it had nothing to do with my situation but who he was up against.

        Lawyers are no different than the rest of us. If you tell the best GeekSquad tech at Future Shop that he is going to be up against Bill Gates while fixing your laptop then Mr Squad is going to be terrified.

        Am I wrong here everyone?

        Comment


        • #5
          My ex has a hard ass lawer who uses nasty accusations and tries to bully the other side. I had one lawyer who I interviewed that would have nothing to do with her. So I found a lawyer that would try to do things the "nice" way and negotiate. If things don't work though I know she is more than willing to dig her heels in. I refuse to get nasty. Only facts.

          Fortunately the ex's lawyer seems to be just steam. She tried to intimidate me but it didn't work too well.

          Comment


          • #6
            Do I need a lawyer when negotiating? I mean I know what my STBX wants, and I know what I'd counter offer. it will end bitterly since we both want to keep our kid, and joint or shared is not an option because she's trying to move back to Europe. so I will very probably need a very aggressive lawyer.

            Comment


            • #7
              If she is attempting to leave the country you really do need a lawyer, and one familiar with the law of the counrty she is moving too. Don't try to negotiate that yourself, especially if it goes to court. You may end up being a long-distance parent!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by billiechic View Post
                If she is attempting to leave the country you really do need a lawyer, and one familiar with the law of the counrty she is moving too. Don't try to negotiate that yourself, especially if it goes to court. You may end up being a long-distance parent!
                you are right about long distance parent, and I don't wanna sound too wimpy, but on the other hand, if I insisted on sole custody to fight it, my daughter would lose one of the parents anyways, either of us will be a long distance parent. either way, our daughter is going to suffer.

                my STBX is totally obsessed with Germany and brainwashed by her family. they don't care about my daughter losing one of her parents at all. her family has very insane sick manipulation saga by her parents using their money. they don't have much moral or anything. I wouldn't be surprised if they killed me just to get the custody. and they are loaded too. so instead of fighting the losing battle, I'm trying to put myself in the right mind to concentrate on the future of my daughter, it's soooooooo hard to put my feelings aside though especially when my STBX so out of touch with reality. I've tried to wake her up to the reality for so long because I know how we were earlier in our relationship, and didn't wanna dismiss the possibility of reconciliation to lead to a new beginning of our relationship. I'm just stunned that someone you loved for so long can become so different after all these years. I've read about how couples grow out of each other, but it's very hard to grasp when you are in the situation yourself.

                I'm crying my eyes out every day, didn't know I could ever cry so much as a man, but if my STBX ever stayed here, even as a family, we'd have the nonsense argument everyday, which would't be any good for my daughter. and I wouldn't wanna take away my daughter's mom from her either. she has every right to have her mom. and I don't wanna drive the insanity by my this immense anger, it'd only harm my daughter's relationship with me and my STBX. so I'm trying to be as reasonable as a bitter, hurt, heart-broken man can be.

                anyways, enough with my rant. the offer to settle is still open, so I'm interested in finding out if I can represent myself to negotiate the offer. I know she wouldn't mind changing sole custody to joint or share custody as long as the primary residency of our daughter is in Germany. that is more or less her only concern. she'll be reasonably happy as long as she can live in Germany with our daughter.

                has anyone tried that?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Are you happy with your daughter living in Germany? How are you going to visit her? Are you going there or will she travel back? Who pays?

                  Children need 2 parents. Your ex has decided that your daughter only needs her. While I understand that you want what is best for your daughter, I think you are so upset because deep down you know that you will lose your daughter if you let her go.

                  Please don't make that decision lightly. It's not like she is moving to the next town, it's across the ocean. If you let her go now, willingly, you will never get her back. I am so sorry to say this. Don't let your fear of a powerful in-law family stop you from doing what is best for your child. If you want her, you might have to fight for her.

                  Why can't your ex stay in Canada? She chose to move here. Or you could suggest that you each have her for 6 months of the year, and have sole custody when she is with you. Not the best arrangement, but better that waving to her as the plane leaves.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by billiechic View Post
                    Are you happy with your daughter living in Germany? How are you going to visit her? Are you going there or will she travel back? Who pays?

                    Children need 2 parents. Your ex has decided that your daughter only needs her. While I understand that you want what is best for your daughter, I think you are so upset because deep down you know that you will lose your daughter if you let her go.

                    Please don't make that decision lightly. It's not like she is moving to the next town, it's across the ocean. If you let her go now, willingly, you will never get her back. I am so sorry to say this. Don't let your fear of a powerful in-law family stop you from doing what is best for your child. If you want her, you might have to fight for her.

                    Why can't your ex stay in Canada? She chose to move here. Or you could suggest that you each have her for 6 months of the year, and have sole custody when she is with you. Not the best arrangement, but better that waving to her as the plane leaves.
                    I can't express how upset I am with the fact that my daughter will live in Germany. but I am willing to visit her twice a year. we are way past the level where she'd consider ever to live here. it's her decision, I've done all I could to convince her, but her homesick caused by her insanely selfish mother totally blinded her already. she's only focused on leaving here with our daughter.

                    like you said, our daughter needs both parents. and she loves us both. it's so wrong for STBX to make this decision. but at the same time, if I focus on only this time of hardship, I will be totally ruining the future of my daughter. if my STBX hated me so much, then she'd badmouth me to brainwash my daughter. and She'd hate to see me. right now, my STBX and I can somewhat talk though in a hostile manner. believe me, I love my daughter to death, I'm crying all the time everyday. my STBX's mom will die sooner or later. my STBX is just not open for any discussion to stay in Canada. it's suffocating.

                    probably every lawyer would push me to seek sole custody just to cash in easy money, but my STBX isn't abusive to our daughter or addicted to alcohol / drugs. the only arguments that I can make is that living in Canada has been the status quo for us and Germany is still a racist society, and our daughter is half Asian, and she's brainwashed by her parents (like in many other couples relationships). if the judge would consider the motive of the move to be too selfish of her, then I might have a chance, but if it was that easy and fair, dads and moms both have 50% chance in court.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Personally I think the court would have a hard time justifying the move. Especially when she has a loving dad who wants her. Have you talked to a lawyer? I think you should, and ask them the real chances of preventing the move. Ask them what is the likely outcome if you file a motion to stop the move.

                      And you don't have to fight her for custody in order to stop the move. You have just said that you can work with her to co-parent. You need to look at how important you are in your daughter's life, then erase yourself and see how empty that void is. Could you let your daughter have that hole in her life?

                      You can apply for joint custody and ask that your daughter spend summer vacation, march break and half of Christmas with you, here in Canada, where she was born. I think that even if the move is allowed you have a great chance of having that sort of arrangement ordered. Then you can insist that CS be lowered (or eliminated) as you will have to pay flight costs.

                      Don't just let her walk away with your heart. Your daughter needs you as much as you need her.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by billiechic View Post
                        Personally I think the court would have a hard time justifying the move. Especially when she has a loving dad who wants her. Have you talked to a lawyer? I think you should, and ask them the real chances of preventing the move. Ask them what is the likely outcome if you file a motion to stop the move.

                        And you don't have to fight her for custody in order to stop the move. You have just said that you can work with her to co-parent. You need to look at how important you are in your daughter's life, then erase yourself and see how empty that void is. Could you let your daughter have that hole in her life?

                        You can apply for joint custody and ask that your daughter spend summer vacation, march break and half of Christmas with you, here in Canada, where she was born. I think that even if the move is allowed you have a great chance of having that sort of arrangement ordered. Then you can insist that CS be lowered (or eliminated) as you will have to pay flight costs.

                        Don't just let her walk away with your heart. Your daughter needs you as much as you need her.
                        thanks for the encouragement! I have been looking for a trusty lawyer. at the same time, I'm trying to put together my response with my amendment to her Offer to Settle with joint custody instead of sole custody, among others. so if she gets to have our daughter in Germany, it's not too much ask for her to be with me in Canada for more than 50% of her vacations / school holidays? I've been going through the forum, but I'm still not familiar with what's the average outcome ( if ever exists) when the dad seeks joint custody.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          You have a history of making decisions for her together I assume. You can get along somewhat? Have you started a journal to record you daily activities with your daughter, conversations with Ex? How were decisions made before you separated?

                          As long as you are actively involved in her life there is not reason you should not have joint custody. That doesn't mean you get her 50% of the time, but that your ex must consult with you for all major decisions and you both have to agree. She might argie that it can't be done from Germany, but with internet and SKype there is NO WAY you can't be involved in her life EVERY DAY!

                          As for the vacations, I read a case on Canlii where the mother was allowed to move to the states and the father was granted all the vacations. I'll see if I can find it.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            CanLII - 2006 ONCJ 310 (CanLII)

                            CanLII - 2006 ONCJ 490 (CanLII)

                            http://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/doc/2008/2008canlii24545/2008canlii24545.html

                            JUst took a few minutes to look for that case. There are many cases on mobility. I suggest you take some time to go through them and see which ones would support your goals and how they are similar to your case. Do the same for allowing the move, but find ways that your case is different.

                            Aimed with the case law a lawyer should be able to give you a good idea of the outcome for you.

                            Sorry I couldn't find the right case. It's there somewhere.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by billiechic View Post
                              CanLII - 2006 ONCJ 310 (CanLII)

                              CanLII - 2006 ONCJ 490 (CanLII)

                              http://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/doc/2008/2008canlii24545/2008canlii24545.html

                              JUst took a few minutes to look for that case. There are many cases on mobility. I suggest you take some time to go through them and see which ones would support your goals and how they are similar to your case. Do the same for allowing the move, but find ways that your case is different.

                              Aimed with the case law a lawyer should be able to give you a good idea of the outcome for you.

                              Sorry I couldn't find the right case. It's there somewhere.
                              thanks for the links! the third one in particular is somewhat similar, and it does show that the court values the best interests of the child more than anything.

                              Comment

                              Our Divorce Forums
                              Forums dedicated to helping people all across Canada get through the separation and divorce process, with discussions about legal issues, parenting issues, financial issues and more.
                              Working...
                              X