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  • Advice re lawyer's behavior

    I have engaged an Ontario lawyer on retainer. The case is a slow-moving one, sometimes with no new developments for months at a time. However, the lawyer is professing that he can still bill me **every month** for time spent “diarizing” his file/case status every month (even though the case is slow-moving/dormant for months - there is nothing to "diarize"!) stating that he is “obliged to do so under LSO Rules of Professional Conduct” and that he may charge me for this non-value-add task.

    I have reviewed the LSO’s Rules of Professional Conduct and find no mention of such a “compulsory” "monthly diarizing" activity. In fact, the only place on www.LSO.ca that I find reference to such a task is under the “Time Management” guidelines, which state:

    “The Guideline is not intended to replace a lawyer's professional judgment or to establish a one-size-fits-all approach to the practice of law.”; &

    “ …conduct periodic, usually monthly, reviews of all open client files each month or ***year***,…” [Emphasis Added]

    Source: https://lso.ca/lawyers/practice-supp...ime-management

    So, it appears that not only does this “compulsory monthly diarization” **not** appear in the Rules of Professional Conduct, when it is mentioned it is in a Guideline (i.e., not "compulsory") and a further reference is made to “…or year”, not month.

    The LSO has dodged my inquiries re: this so far.

    Any experience or comments you have would be appreciated

  • #2
    I am far from an expert on the subject, however it would seem reasonable for a lawyer to pick up each file on a monthly basis, do a brief review to refresh themselves on its status, determine if they need anything from you or of assistance to the file, and determine whether or not some action is needed. Half hour tops. You would not want your lawyer to have your file sit on his/her floor for months, and then be unprepared for a court date by missing information he/she could have asked for months ago.

    However, I have also read other complaints where the lawyer picked up a dormant file, read it, and then wrote a "Status Report" back to the client, charging the client for the report he/she never asked for. That, in my view, would not be acceptable and I would not pay it.

    Comment


    • #3
      Some not all lawyers see clients as an ATM
      It amazes me that people enter into these very very costly agreements for service without a much higher degree of specificity and detailed scope of work
      We spend far more time shopping for winter tires to save $100
      Insane

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      • #4
        There is value to having a lawyer if you are new to the hellhole that is family court. I took a crack at writing my court materials and my lawyer significantly improved their content as well as my claims. I also learned of process such as affidavits of service, filing days, and other procedural stuff.

        Essentially, I paid my lawyer for an education of how to conduct myself written and orally in family court, and am armed with this education for future self-representation.
        Last edited by LovingDad1234; 04-29-2020, 10:03 AM.

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        • #5
          If I knew then what I know now! And I pretty much still know barely enough to navigate this quagmire . Paying someone $350 an hour for a real focussed education might make sense. University courses are about $20 an hour for lecture time.

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          • #6
            Check your retainer agreement. It should outline what they bill for or what actions they take. A good lawyer does not need to do this but a lawyer with limited work will “milk” files.

            Might be time to find a new lawyer.

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            • #7
              There really should be a required statement of work with cost estimates, ceilings, minimums.
              I would not take my van for a brake job without one and they would not do other work without approval. Same goes for all other professions.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Abba435 View Post
                There really should be a required statement of work with cost estimates, ceilings, minimums.
                I would not take my van for a brake job without one and they would not do other work without approval. Same goes for all other professions.

                My husband’s retainer agreement was six pages long and went through how the case is worked on, what will and will not be billed, who may respond on his behalf and had a whole section what they will not accept from their client. Including information about cause for firing the client. We only got a bill after work was done and we never reached out to him unless he had sent communications to my husband. One of the biggest reasons his bill was lower than it could have been.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I think the issue Abba is indicating is that having a lawyer, and paying top dollar, guarantees nothing. You are paying for their legal mind to be involved in your matter. You are paying to put your best foot forward. Someone with millions can spend $100,000 on a case and lose. There is no guarantee that if you pay $X, you will get the result you want. It is nothing like fixing a car, where the mechanic tells you that you need new brakes, and it will be $600 inclusive of the parts and labour.

                  Regarding the original post, it would be best to check the retainer. I, myself, would not have issue with my lawyer picking up the file every now and then to update themselves on where it stands and what is needed as next steps to move file along. To ensure that the gameplan is being executed in terms of court dates, materials needed, etc.

                  But regarding lawyer behaviour, yes, there are shady lawyers who will milk you when you are vulnerable. The key is to find one you get along with and respect, and who respects you and is honest with you, and genuinely seems to care about your outcome to give you their best effort.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by LovingDad1234 View Post
                    I think the issue Abba is indicating is that having a lawyer, and paying top dollar, guarantees nothing. You are paying for their legal mind to be involved in your matter. You are paying to put your best foot forward. Someone with millions can spend $100,000 on a case and lose. There is no guarantee that if you pay $X, you will get the result you want. It is nothing like fixing a car, where the mechanic tells you that you need new brakes, and it will be $600 inclusive of the parts and labour.

                    Regarding the original post, it would be best to check the retainer. I, myself, would not have issue with my lawyer picking up the file every now and then to update themselves on where it stands and what is needed as next steps to move file along. To ensure that the gameplan is being executed in terms of court dates, materials needed, etc.

                    But regarding lawyer behaviour, yes, there are shady lawyers who will milk you when you are vulnerable. The key is to find one you get along with and respect, and who respects you and is honest with you, and genuinely seems to care about your outcome to give you their best effort.
                    Disagree respectfully
                    Piece work in all professions is common
                    Architects, engineers, dentists
                    Very few expect carte blanche
                    The retainer agreement is essential
                    Many do not get one
                    Get one

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                    • #11
                      I think a lot of people expect miracles for pennies. Doesn’t happen. You want to save money? Be reasonable, do your research, don’t bother your lawyer unnecessarily and lower your expectations.

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                      • #12
                        Also, its not up to your lawyer for results and outcome. Your lawyer can help guide parties to settlement, or represent you in court, where the judge is the decision-maker. Its not that if you pay your lawyer, you are guaranteed any results whatsoever.

                        Hint for lowering bill? Have your questions for your lawyer ready ahead of time. Relax on the chit chat. Your lawyer doesn't need to know that your ex gave you a dirty look last week. If lawyers are involved and you are in court, your lawyer knows its not all peachy between the parties.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by rockscan View Post
                          I think a lot of people expect miracles for pennies. Doesn’t happen. You want to save money? Be reasonable, do your research, don’t bother your lawyer unnecessarily and lower your expectations.
                          Bingo
                          That said certain lawyers often set it up that they know better and overpromise.
                          Hard to know going in.
                          Easy to see after $30k disappears

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                          • #14
                            My lawyer charges for every email. If the one liner ones. Min .10 and $45. What is .10??? 10 minutes??? Ridiculous. And no point changing lawyers...they are all money hungry shakes.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Helpmyspouse View Post
                              My lawyer charges for every email. If the one liner ones. Min .10 and $45. What is .10??? 10 minutes??? .
                              Yes, lawyers read each and every email, even the one-liners. They read the email, think about it in the context of your case, and then after analysis will respond accordingly. To save money, is best to think about your emails before sending them. Send ONE comprehensive email with ALL your questions and thoughts, as opposed to peppering your lawyer with tons of emails.

                              Lawyers charge by the 0.10 hour, which is every 6 minutes. Those 10 one-liner emails can easily be $450, if not more.

                              Comment

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