Thumbing your nose at the court system

[KMF]

I honestly don't know what happened. I just want it rectified. My ex is the most untrustworthy person I've ever met. The worst thing he did to me, was steal every single picture of my children. I literally have no baby pictures of any of my kids, including my son from my first marriage. I know my other two will eventually get theirs back when he dies, but he threw out all of my son's pictures. This is the kind of person he is, and this is why I feel like my divorce will never be over. I'll have to fight every single year for tax returns. He's been underpaying child support for three years now. It never seems to end.

[Winter]

Here is a hard truth and something you need to think long about and consider...now that he is self employed, you will NEVER know his true income. It will be impossible to ascertain it. There are numerous ways for self employed persons to manipulate their income numbers. Especially when you have someone who won't disclose a simple tax return, good luck getting proof of questionable deductions.

Do you really want to waste your life in court?

Get the fairest final order you can either through agreement or at trial. And realize that is probably as fair as it will ever get

Make sure there are detailed disclosure rules in the order, ask him in writing to follow them once a year if he doesn't and then leave it, understanding that it is a game that he gets pleasure and power from playing and it will consume your life. If you let it.

[KMF]

That's exactly what my plan is. Since his pleadings have been struck, I want to go into the uncontested trial, imputing his income to what I think it could be, and leave it at that. I do not intend on going into court every year, just to do something as simple as exchange tax returns. He's already wasted three years of my life, dragging this thing out. As long as my kids are well taken care of, and don't lose anything they currently have (I don't think one activity each is unreasonable), then they'll be happy. That's all I want.

[arabian]

It is highly likely that the scenarios MS Mom and Berner Faith describe occurring in large companies is what is happening in KMFs case

But it is important to be aware that it is possible that someone in the company is colluding with her KMFs ex to avoid garnishment. Don't blindly assume it is an honest mistake and feel safe in that assumption. Know it is possible he is being protected and act to address it

The deceit involved in the divorce process has shocked me terribly. People like my ex's bankruptcy trustee, who is considered an officer of the court, have outright lied and refused to follow rules they are required to by their profession. If I had only know about the BIA Bankrupt and Insolvency Act years ago and had read it then, I would have known the rules the trustee was breaking on my ex's behalf at the time they were being broken and could have acted.

It could be an honest oversight...but don't be surprised and too distressed if it isn't. The company as an entity wouldn't be doing the colluding. It would be a friend of KMFs ex who has a position within the company to protect him. There is no real risk because they can claim it was an honest mistake. That is why it is very important to have a paper trail proving that they have been informed of all the relevant details so that they cannot plead ignorance later to evade consequences.

This I agree with this. Something as simple as a letter to the company outlining your concerns can benefit you in the future should you litigate.

Big companies have shareholders or Boards of Directions to account to. They also hire or retain a number of lawyers. Large money is spent on advertising and they most certainly don't want this sort of thing being aired. You can send your letter to the company Ombudsman. Don't be surprised if you are referred to their legal department who, in turn, will refuse to communicate with you because the file now has been flagged as potential litigation. This is when they realize someone in their organization has fucked-up.

The "old boys club" is very much alive and well as I found out in my case. You have to determine whether or not you have the stamina to fight this though. Keep any and all documents because some day in the future you just may decide to act on it. It doesn't have to be right away, it could be years down the road, after your divorce is settled.

Regarding Trustees - they are pretty much all crooks in my opinion. Anyone can become a Trustee. You take some simple courses and pass a few tests and hang up your shingle. They certainly aren't CAs and they are only accountable to the Office of Superintendent of Trustees, which is a limp-wrist extension of the federal government. When Trustees don't behave nothing is done to them. Trustees give out half-information and lie frequently by omission. Accountability is nil and their professional association has no ability to censure it's members, only the OSB can, but does nothing.

[KMF]

It just amazes me, the extent to which some people will go through, just to avoid living up to their responsibility. They make such wonderful role models for their children.

[arabian]

Here is a hard truth and something you need to think long about and consider...now that he is self employed, you will NEVER know his true income. It will be impossible to ascertain it. There are numerous ways for self employed persons to manipulate their income numbers. Especially when you have someone who won't disclose a simple tax return, good luck getting proof of questionable deductions.

Do you really want to waste your life in court?

Get the fairest final order you can either through agreement or at trial. And realize that is probably as fair as it will ever get

Make sure there are detailed disclosure rules in the order, ask him in writing to follow them once a year if he doesn't and then leave it, understanding that it is a game that he gets pleasure and power from playing and it will consume your life. If you let it.

I agree that one has to measure their personal situation and see if they have what it takes to see it through. For the most part I think you have to be realistic. If you can get a decent settlement and be assured that you will be paid, then that would be a bonus.

In my case, everything has been negotiated to death and my ex simply refuses to comply. I am playing by the rules, am more than patient, and have gotten used to the waiting game.

My ex wanted to dance and I'm a pretty good dance partner. LOL

[KMF]

I hear ya. I'm playing by the rules too, and sometimes I wonder why. He has no problem lying and cheating and stealing, yet I still obey the law and do what I'm told to do by the courts. Sometimes I think I'm an idiot.

[arabian]

I keep reminding myself that "patience is a virtue." I'll let you know next year if it pays off. LOL.

So many times I've wondered if I should have had my ex's knees adjusted when we started our litigation rather than go through this crap. My lawyer recently prepared a document which proved my ex's dishonesty by citing his own sworn affidavits. It was absolutely thrilling to see everything documented. That, in itself, was worth the years of waiting. A brilliant document which hopefully will go a long way in helping my situation.

My ex admitted everything in responding affidavits. It always amazed me that his lawyer allowed him to submit those affidavits. Dumb guy and dumb lawyer makes for quite the combo.

You're not an idiot. Just be patient and stay the course.

[MS Mom]

What a great wealth of information! Winter, arabian and MS Mom, you have helped me a great deal. I'm going to fax FRO today with all the relevant information. I'm also going to get the bank account info from my lawyer, regarding his new company. His company name is his own initials, he works for this company only, still has their email address, is on their directory of employees and has their work cell phone that he was given three years ago when he was an "employee". When you call head office and ask if he's an employee, they say yes and give you his cell phone number. I honestly don't get why the company would put themselves at risk, when I'm sure they have hundreds of employees across Canada, who are also in the position of having their salary garnished.

My suggestion is get it to the right person. There's an accountant in there that sticks to the rules, most CAs, CGAs, etc will - its licensing like nursing, etc. Let's figure out the right person in this situation.

The supervisor he's working with won't see the risk, or care about the risk. But, someone does, I assure you that.

If he has a company cell phone, he's definitely an employee, not a contractor. That's a give-away right there. Email address, not so much...the company may want that for customer sake. Does he still carry his employment health benefits?

So, from an Employer point of view. Fax the order to Accounts Payable, with a cover sheet naming the company so someone there can connect those dots.

Send the order to HR, with a cover sheet explaining that this employee is now working under ABC Company and is being paid through Accounts Payable.

Get the order to the legal/contracts department of the company. Even the small company I work for has inhouse legal. I suggest courier or traceable mail for this.

I would do all of the above on the same day. Connecting dots are even easier then.

If none of the above work, file a "heads up" on the CRA website for possible tax fraud. Name ABC Company, him and the actual company he works for.

[KMF]

lol! My ex self-represents, and he's the worst liar ever. He was ordered to pay the overdraft and shut down our joint bank account a year and a half ago. I have three separate emails from him over the course the year, where he says he just closed it "last week". Three times, "last week". Then at the contempt motion, he hires a lawyer to act as agent, and she says, "my client was unable to close the joint bank account because he can't remember the account number". This, after he sent my lawyer an email the day before, saying he just closed it "last week" and doesn't know why they're saying it's still open. He can't keep up with his own lies!

[KMF]

My suggestion is get it to the right person. There's an accountant in there that sticks to the rules, most CAs, CGAs, etc will - its licensing like nursing, etc. Let's figure out the right person in this situation.

The supervisor he's working with won't see the risk, or care about the risk. But, someone does, I assure you that.

If he has a company cell phone, he's definitely an employee, not a contractor. That's a give-away right there. Email address, not so much...the company may want that for customer sake. Does he still carry his employment health benefits?

So, from an Employer point of view. Fax the order to Accounts Payable, with a cover sheet naming the company so someone there can connect those dots.

Send the order to HR, with a cover sheet explaining that this employee is now working under ABC Company and is being paid through Accounts Payable.

Get the order to the legal/contracts department of the company. Even the small company I work for has inhouse legal. I suggest courier or traceable mail for this.

I would do all of the above on the same day. Connecting dots are even easier then.

If none of the above work, file a "heads up" on the CRA website for possible tax fraud. Name ABC Company, him and the actual company he works for.

Thank you! I will do that! He doesn't have benefits anymore. I'm guessing he's on his gf's now, and doesn't realize he's screwing himself by not adding his kids. Braces aren't cheap.

[arabian]

I have found it is quite helpful to have your lawyer insert a clause in the Notice of Motion that states for every day he is in contempt of the order (not providing financial disclosure, closing a bank account)he will pay 150.00/day. That usually intimidates the self represented. A seasoned lawyer, however, knows contempt has to be heard in a separate hearing. All in all, it still doesn't hurt as Notice of Motion becomes part of the continuing record. Somewhere down the line a judge will take note of this.

[KMF]

I'll definitely mention this to my lawyer. We're actually filing another contempt motion, because he's in contempt of a contempt order now. Brilliant.

[Winter]

KMF, your legal fees must be astronomical.

Your ex is self rep. This all costs him nothing. He is running up your fees. You will never recoup what you pay your lawyer, even with cost awards.

You wrote your lawyer primarily practices criminal law. Contempt is very different in family law. Basically, nothing really happens. The worst is that pleadings are struck and you have that already.

What is the goal of another contempt motion? Except to increase your legal fees?

Your lawyer cannot sue the company for not garnishing, as you wrote in a previous post. It is against the rules for you or your lawyer to pursue any collection actions. Only FRO can. You would have to withdraw from FRO to pursue that course.

I am worried that your legal bill will far outweigh whatever you can ever hope to collect. It is an issue you need to look hard at

The best and least costly course is to proceed directly to uncontested trial

[MS Mom]

KMF, your legal fees must be astronomical.

Your ex is self rep. This all costs him nothing. He is running up your fees. You will never recoup what you pay your lawyer, even with cost awards.

You wrote your lawyer primarily practices criminal law. Contempt is very different in family law. Basically, nothing really happens. The worst is that pleadings are struck and you have that already.

What is the goal of another contempt motion? Except to increase your legal fees?

Your lawyer cannot sue the company for not garnishing, as you wrote in a previous post. It is against the rules for you or your lawyer to pursue any collection actions. Only FRO can. You would have to withdraw from FRO to pursue that course.

I am worried that your legal bill will far outweigh whatever you can ever hope to collect. It is an issue you need to look hard at

The best and least costly course is to proceed directly to uncontested trial

Excellent advise. Beware of the legallly induced financial pitfalls here...try and pursue collection via the order/company. You shouldn't have to incur further fees to enforce an existing order. Even if you're awarded costs, you have the same collection issue.

I'm not sure where the line is drawn on having your lawyer pursue collection, but a cover letter from them, on legal letterhead accompanying the copy of the order sent to the legal department of the company may make it more noticeable.

Again, from an employer point of view, if we don't follow the order, the company is liable. But, FRO has to pursue that liability, since they're handling the order.

Have you checked out any FRO vs. employer canlii cases? Just an off the cuff thought.