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  • #16
    Originally posted by MS Mom View Post
    It's only a donation if it was truly "donated". I still can't believe that some arbitrary person would hand over enough sperm to populate a small village and not do their due diligence (if his motive was truly altruistic). There had to have been a monetary reason behind it. He was motivated by something.

    It's like signing your separation agreement without ILA.
    A donation is a donation.

    We do not analyse the motives of someone who donates to a charity, church, non-profit, political party, etc. We simply recognize that something was donated, be it blankets, money, sperm, canned goods, or otherwise.

    If we treat one donation as being "motivated", then we have to treat all.

    So if someone donates a blanket to a disaster, are they responsible if the save the life of some criminal?

    You want law. This is law. You cannot pick and choose. A donation is a donation. The person who donates has their own motives, whether it is religion, or ethics, or self-agrandisment.

    If you want to rewrite the law to separate donation according to motive, then you need to approach your member of parliament.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Mess View Post
      A donation is a donation.

      We do not analyse the motives of someone who donates to a charity, church, non-profit, political party, etc. We simply recognize that something was donated, be it blankets, money, sperm, canned goods, or otherwise.

      If we treat one donation as being "motivated", then we have to treat all.

      So if someone donates a blanket to a disaster, are they responsible if the save the life of some criminal?

      You want law. This is law. You cannot pick and choose. A donation is a donation. The person who donates has their own motives, whether it is religion, or ethics, or self-agrandisment.

      If you want to rewrite the law to separate donation according to motive, then you need to approach your member of parliament.
      My point Mess is that was he paid for it? If he was paid, it isn't a donation is it?

      Comment


      • #18
        Former partners 'forever grateful' to Topeka sperm donor | CJOnline.com

        This article provides more background.

        The "donor" was paid. They posted the craigslist ad because their family doctor refused to sign off stating that they were "capable of raising a child" as was required for the official route.

        So, Daddy thought he could earn a quick buck for helping the parent skirt the legalities of doing it the right way.
        Last edited by MS Mom; 01-24-2014, 01:49 PM.

        Comment


        • #19
          Its still compelling to consider that there might be a double standard here.

          Another example, a woman can get paid for surrogacy. And if the woman changes her mind at the end and decides to not give the baby up for adoption, she can keep it without having to return those fees. She can then sue the surrogate sperm donor for CS (assuming she used the sperm of the male of the paying couple). I remember reading about a case like this a while back in the U.S.

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          • #20
            Actually, I don't think a woman can be paid for surrogacy in Canada. I think they can be reimbursed costs for things like maternity clothes, missed work, but technically not be paid for their surrogacy. I could be wrong.

            What is interesting is that to use donor sperm here in Canada you do not need to go through being qualified to raise a child. Some fertility centres insist that you see a psych to deal with the emotional aspects of raising a donor baby but they don't ascertain if you are fit to have a family. That in itself is bizarre given you do need a home assessment to adopt a child.

            I think the bigger issue is this: Whether the sperm was donated or paid for or not, the issue is that it is the right of the child to have the CS, at least as far as the legal ruling in this particular case has established.

            There are some distinctions between donor and adopted babies that have made headlines and were in the supreme court of Canada. Not sure if they have been resolved as of yet but I suspect so. A donor baby (now an adult) when to court because they wanted to know who their donor sperm father was. This child claimed it was her right to know. I believe the lower courts deemed it wasn't her right as the father's donated their sperm based on their anonymous donation. But the child went on to say that adopted babies get to unseal their records and get info on their bio parents and donor babies should have the same rights. Last I heard it was at the Supreme Court. I believe one of their arguments was that the donor babies were being discriminated against given they didn't have the same rights as adopted babies.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Serene View Post
              Actually, I don't think a woman can be paid for surrogacy in Canada. I think they can be reimbursed costs for things like maternity clothes, missed work, but technically not be paid for their surrogacy. I could be wrong.

              What is interesting is that to use donor sperm here in Canada you do not need to go through being qualified to raise a child. Some fertility centres insist that you see a psych to deal with the emotional aspects of raising a donor baby but they don't ascertain if you are fit to have a family. That in itself is bizarre given you do need a home assessment to adopt a child.

              I think the bigger issue is this: Whether the sperm was donated or paid for or not, the issue is that it is the right of the child to have the CS, at least as far as the legal ruling in this particular case has established.

              There are some distinctions between donor and adopted babies that have made headlines and were in the supreme court of Canada. Not sure if they have been resolved as of yet but I suspect so. A donor baby (now an adult) when to court because they wanted to know who their donor sperm father was. This child claimed it was her right to know. I believe the lower courts deemed it wasn't her right as the father's donated their sperm based on their anonymous donation. But the child went on to say that adopted babies get to unseal their records and get info on their bio parents and donor babies should have the same rights. Last I heard it was at the Supreme Court. I believe one of their arguments was that the donor babies were being discriminated against given they didn't have the same rights as adopted babies.
              My ex approached me (during our marriage) about donating to a friend of hers, whose husband's family had some serious genetic issues. I felt guilty about saying no. Now I think I dodged a bullet.

              Comment


              • #22
                Actually, I don't think a woman can be paid for surrogacy in Canada. I think they can be reimbursed costs for things like maternity clothes, missed work, but technically not be paid for their surrogacy. I could be wrong.
                The same is true in many U.S. states so what the legal firms do that handle these is bake a bunch of b.s. expenses under the umbrella of "medical needs." I saw a show where a woman got paid 60k in "medical needs" and would regularly call the couple to ask for miscellaneous bits of money here and there.

                I believe the lower courts deemed it wasn't her right as the father's donated their sperm based on their anonymous donation. But the child went on to say that adopted babies get to unseal their records and get info on their bio parents and donor babies should have the same rights. Last I heard it was at the Supreme Court. I believe one of their arguments was that the donor babies were being discriminated against given they didn't have the same rights as adopted babies.
                Very interesting. The message that men need to take out of this is that you need to really think about donating your squigglies....the later ramifications are not something you'd consider possible at the time of donation.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Sort of off topic but will likely make your head spin...

                  I had the opportunity to be involved in a discussion with Barry Stevens:

                  Toronto man claims to have up to 1,000 siblings through single sperm donor | Toronto Star

                  It was truly one of the most interesting discussions I have ever had the opportunity to be involved in. He has a documentary that is equally as interesting based on his own story.

                  This discussion provided a lot of information. I don't recall the exact statistics but it went on to say that because we don't pay for gametes here that many men do not donate their sperm (lack of incentive to do so). But there are a FEW that do. These few tend to donate and donate so much so that there were over 50 childRen in Toronto in a 50 mile radius that are related as they all share the same donor. And the number could be higher since there is no registry for these donor babies (it is also not recorded on their birth certificates or in a birth registry, only at the clinic that inseminated them and there is no onus to report if that insemination resulted in a successful birth).

                  So these kids are running around in a relatively small geographical space not knowing they are related to one another!

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Serene:

                    There was an infamous case in the U.S. where a fertility doctor used his own sperm at his clinic. It was in a small town and I believe it was a combination of things that got him caught...one being that the kids all went to a local dentists office that started noticing the same rare dental deformity in an unrepresentative sample of kids.

                    They reported the story on 60-minutes and a lot of parents were really concerned because the town they lived in was small enough that the children could have easily dated each other.

                    Cecil Jacobson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                    And he's not the only one, there's been others....like this guy in Britain:

                    British man 'fathered 600 children' at own fertility clinic - Telegraph

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      This kind of reminds me of the now-concluded TV series Big Love. Bill Paxton starred in the role as the polygamist patriarch. One year the series finale story-line was similar.

                      Really very creepy.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by arabian View Post
                        This kind of reminds me of the now-concluded TV series Big Love. Bill Paxton starred in the role as the polygamist patriarch. One year the series finale story-line was similar.

                        Really very creepy.
                        Yes it is creepy, seems to be more and more cases of unethical MD's willing to play God to generate some extra revenue. Octomom's doctor should be held responsible for a portion of raising that litter of kidlets. From a legal standpoint I can well imagine how complicated future litigations will become.
                        Calling DNA specialist and bio-engineer's to the stand?

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          more cases of unethical MD's willing to play God
                          It's not just MD's that try to play god.

                          Octomom's doctor should be held responsible for a portion of raising that litter of kidlets.
                          Then that will set a precedent....we know when people go the in-vitro fert route, there is always the chance of multiple births. So you can see that "holding clinics responsible", will make nobody want to offer the service for the fear of being sued.

                          I have trouble seeing what difference it makes how the sperm got into her, and whether he enjoyed or not. There are documents signed by both of them saying he is not the father.

                          Well, he is the father. Everyone agrees on that, biologically. The question is, what procedures and policies do we, as a society, need to make sure are in place in order to ensure that people can't just abandon their obligations in situations like this?
                          Source: http://www.fark.com/comments/8113481/88887992#c88887992
                          Last edited by Jeff; 01-25-2014, 03:52 PM. Reason: Don't copy entire articles; Give attribution for quotes

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            ^^ You forgot your source again.
                            Unless, of course, you are DamnYankees on Fark. But he seems to be Ethan from New York.

                            FARK.com: (8113481) Kansas judge: "You gave sperm to a lesbian couple? You can't prove you didn't fark them, so you're the father, now pay up"

                            This is what DamnYankees had to say (last night, no less):

                            "Well, he is the father. Everyone agrees on that, biologically. The question is, what procedures and policies do we, as a society, need to make sure are in place in order to ensure that people can't just abandon their obligations as a parent.
                            Last edited by Jeff; 01-25-2014, 03:53 PM. Reason: Snipped quote; thanks for pointing this out.
                            Start a discussion, not a fire. Post with kindness.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by mcdreamy View Post
                              ^^ You forgot your source again.
                              Unless, of course, you are DamnYankees on Fark. But he seems to be Ethan from New York.

                              FARK.com: (8113481) Kansas judge: "You gave sperm to a lesbian couple? You can't prove you didn't fark them, so you're the father, now pay up"

                              This is what DamnYankees had to say (last night, no less):

                              "Well, he is the father. Everyone agrees on that, biologically. The question is, what procedures and policies do we, as a society, need to make sure are in place in order to ensure that people can't just abandon their obligations as a parent.
                              Wow. Simply wow.

                              My opinions may be out there to some, they may be spot on to others. But, one thing for sure, they're all mine.
                              Last edited by Jeff; 01-25-2014, 03:54 PM. Reason: Snipped quote

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by MS Mom View Post
                                Wow. Simply wow.

                                My opinions may be out there to some, they may be spot on to others. But, one thing for sure, they're all mine.
                                Another typical day in Ottawa divorce forum ... (my own comment btw)

                                Comment

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