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  • Don't know if this will be useful, but here's a formula that I've come to use when ex is being difficult:

    1. Don't ask open-ended questions as that leads to long-winded and frequently off-topic answers. Instead of "What would you like to do?", make a proposal and let them propose an alternative within a specified time frame. E.g. "I propose we do xyz. If you would like to suggest an alternative, please do so by Date". This doesn't guarantee smooth sailing (see my recent threads on holidays!) but I found it cut down on noise.

    2. Ask direct closed-ended or yes/no questions. Provide alternatives, not open-ended inquiries. Ask "Are you bringing Kid before or after x o'clock?" or "I suggest that you bring Kid at x o'clock. Is this all right?" rather than "What time will you be bringing Kid?".

    3. Be polite but never ever mention emotions - yours, ex's, Kid's, nobody's. Imagine you're dealing with FedEx arranging for pickups and dropoffs of freight.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by LovingFather32 View Post
      Just got another one:
      __________________________________________________ ___________
      Hi LF32,


      Just to be clear, I am completely alone on Christmas as we will be celebrating with my family next week so no we are not having 2 Christmases. As you can imagine this is why these 4 little hours with D3 are very important to me.

      We'll I appreciate your willingness to give up your families new years eve dinner to accommodate me I tried to be fair with you by giving you two options so that you didn't loose out on any time with your daughter even offering you an option that actually even gave you an additional 4 hours more then your court ordered agreement but this is still not good enough for you.

      I understand if this does not work for you and I guess we revert to our original court order agreement to keep things simple.

      Thanks anyways,
      __________________________________________________ __________

      Oh boy. "Its still not good enough for me". God Im glad Im not speaking like that to her in e-mails. Any ideas for a response?
      This is a classic example of a really annoying email which doesn't merit a response. The way is clear - you are going to revert to the court order. What else is there to discuss?

      Comment


      • Originally posted by stripes View Post
        Don't know if this will be useful, but here's a formula that I've come to use when ex is being difficult:

        1. Don't ask open-ended questions as that leads to long-winded and frequently off-topic answers. Instead of "What would you like to do?", make a proposal and let them propose an alternative within a specified time frame. E.g. "I propose we do xyz. If you would like to suggest an alternative, please do so by Date". This doesn't guarantee smooth sailing (see my recent threads on holidays!) but I found it cut down on noise.

        2. Ask direct closed-ended or yes/no questions. Provide alternatives, not open-ended inquiries. Ask "Are you bringing Kid before or after x o'clock?" or "I suggest that you bring Kid at x o'clock. Is this all right?" rather than "What time will you be bringing Kid?".

        3. Be polite but never ever mention emotions - yours, ex's, Kid's, nobody's. Imagine you're dealing with FedEx arranging for pickups and dropoffs of freight.
        All good advice. I actually just wrote it down. God Im a nerd. Thanks

        I was wondering the same thing. Does it even merit a response? She kind of leaves it sounding like I was unreasonable and even turned down extra time with D3 in the process. Damn .. she's good.

        Comment


        • Probably best to just say "yes best to stick with original order." And work out drop offs etc.

          Youre dealing with a high conflict person looking to trap you. You tried, it didnt work. She will never see her unreasonableness. Wait until the final orders come and you have to switch off holidays!

          Comment


          • I totally agree with Rockscan - stick to the court order.

            I think she is merely playing you.

            I always wonder why people get court orders and then don't adhere to them.... Not playing her game doesn't mean you are uncooperative and rigid. It means you are simply abiding by court order. Nothing else.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by LovingFather32 View Post
              All good advice. I actually just wrote it down. God Im a nerd. Thanks

              I was wondering the same thing. Does it even merit a response? She kind of leaves it sounding like I was unreasonable and even turned down extra time with D3 in the process. Damn .. she's good.
              she is good, she is trying to get under your skin and get you to react. At least you are not playing right into her hand. She wanted you to fire off an threatening type of email to her calling her every name in the book so she can show to judge saying "he has anger issues and impossible to co-parent with"

              If you give her the 4 hours at Christmas and add 4 hours on your last day with her would it be that big of a deal? I am not sure about all the planning etc that you have made so if it would be acceptable to you, why not? Then it makes her look like the idiot and you the flexible parent who cares about D3. Like I said, I am not sure of your plans.

              If you don't want to do that then just tell her that its best for the time being to stick to the court order.

              Comment


              • No, don't respond further and if you do, simply acknowledge receipt and understanding of her message (that the order will be followed).

                If you haven't already read about William Eddy and BIFF style of communication.
                Brief
                Informative
                Factual
                Firm

                It really does work. In one of his books he goes into detail about it but here is a synopsis;

                Bill Eddy

                Comment


                • That's it with the communication!!!!!!!!!! From what I read in the posts you got what you asked for ...but over thought it.... all good intentions wind up in hell.

                  One partner loses the specific day be it ..XMAS... EASTER... Birthdays

                  but next year the partner that lost the specific day...gets it

                  Divorce kids get 2 of everything anyways

                  So you should of wrote back ...this is a new order .....next year you get D3 on XMAS.....or EASTER or D3 Birthday....you can't do half days all year round on special occasions.

                  GO back to the Original Order.

                  Perhaps Goldilocks will smarten up and give a proper response later but right now she's playing you like a cheap emotional flute.
                  Last edited by MrToronto; 12-22-2014, 06:17 PM.

                  Comment


                  • Oops it's Brief Informative 'Friendly' Firm

                    Comment


                    • I want to translate!!

                      Just to be clear, I am completely alone on Christmas as we will be celebrating with my family next week so no we are not having 2 Christmases. As you can imagine this is why these 4 little hours with D3 are very important to me.
                      Boo hoo, I'm alone on Christmas! You should feel sorry for me and change your mind! Never mind that you having D3 for the five days means I can travel to visit whomever I want.

                      We'll I appreciate your willingness to give up your families new years eve dinner to accommodate me I tried to be fair with you by giving you two options so that you didn't loose out on any time with your daughter even offering you an option that actually even gave you an additional 4 hours more then your court ordered agreement but this is still not good enough for you.
                      Boo hoo, I tried to make you think I was being fair but you didn't fall for it. So now I have to interpret that as an attack on what I want and attack you back. It's so hard for me to give you 4 of my many hours and why isn't it easy for you to give me 4 of your very few hours?

                      I understand if this does not work for you and I guess we revert to our original court order agreement to keep things simple.
                      Thanks anyways,
                      I won't suggest any alternatives because then it looks like we're working cooperatively. So my next attack is to insist on reverting back to the order, no matter how inconvenient it is to everyone, because that's the bare minimum required of me. So there - ppppppppt!
                      She does like to get her digs in, doesn't she? You just have to be a duck, and carefully reply in a way that turns the dig around on her.

                      She just doesn't understand that you giving up 4 hours is a lot more of a sacrifice than her giving up 4 hours. She's already forgotten that she used to limit you to less than 4 hours a week! She probably never will understand your reluctance to give up time, and accepting that will help you avoid a lot of future fights.

                      How about an answer along the lines of: "Since you haven't suggested any alternatives to keep our negotiation going, reverting to the court order does seem best if you are not willing to do exchanges on the 24th, 30th and 7th."

                      Oh, and something that you put in your post with her original offer has been bothering me since. You wrote
                      Originally posted by LovingFather32 View Post
                      She's giving me New Years Eve?
                      which most would interpret as your ex is giving you your daughter for New Year's Eve. But you already had New Year's Eve, so what you really meant is that your ex is offering to take D3 and give you New Year's Eve off. When you seem happy about the idea, it looks like you prefer to have the evening free than spend it with your daughter.

                      I don't know if it was just from typing quickly or if you really do feel that. But it's an example of the sort of misunderstanding you want to avoid with your ex at all costs so I thought I'd draw your attention to it.
                      Last edited by Rioe; 12-22-2014, 11:17 PM.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Rioe View Post
                        She's already forgotten that she used to limit you to less than 4 hours a week!.
                        Yes she has. It seems she's forgotten all that she's done. It's troubling.

                        I don't think I'm even going to respond to that. I like that she called it the "court ordered agreement". She agreed to nothing.

                        Using her digs against her is what needs to happen. Even in her first e-mail she said " I would really appreciate if you'd be willing to work somethig out with me but if you are unable to do so I will understand. Just figured I'd ask. Let me know."

                        Then goes on to say how disappointed she is, that there no way to negotiate anything with me and that "nothing's good enough for me". Doesn't really sound like she understands.

                        Anyways .. another learning experience for me. What she'll never get is any kind of negativity, arguments or hostility from me.

                        Not sure if I will respond to this. I'll have to sit on it.

                        P.S - Just finished a movie. Anyone ever remember "Jack frost" being that damn sad?
                        Last edited by LovingFather32; 12-23-2014, 12:41 AM.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by LovingFather32 View Post

                          I don't think I'm even going to respond to that. I like that she called it the "court ordered agreement". She agreed to nothing.

                          Using her digs against her is what needs to happen. Even in her first e-mail she said " I would really appreciate if you'd be willing to work somethig out with me but if you are unable to do so I will understand. Just figured I'd ask. Let me know."



                          Anyways .. another learning experience for me. What she'll never get is any kind of negativity, arguments or hostility from me.

                          Not sure if I will respond to this. I'll have to sit on it.
                          ^^^^ That feeling is usually a cue that you don't need to, and indeed shouldn't, respond. I don't know anyone who's ever said "Damn, I really wish I had sent off that irritated email to my ex rather than just leaving it in my drafts folder".

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by stripes View Post
                            ^^^^ That feeling is usually a cue that you don't need to, and indeed shouldn't, respond. I don't know anyone who's ever said "Damn, I really wish I had sent off that irritated email to my ex rather than just leaving it in my drafts folder".
                            Hehe, yeah, even now as I review what I wrote in my last post, I realize I could have done better.

                            I have further thoughts on her line that nothing is good enough for you. Don't be bothered by it - it's just her whine that she still doesn't want to give you the 50-50 that IS good enough for you.

                            Comment


                            • I wonder if ex even recalls the past 9 months.

                              - I wasn't allowed extra time with D3 on special occasions.
                              - I couldn't see her on my b-day. Couldn't even get a call on D3's b-day
                              - Refused even a phone call on Easter (and a proposed dinner with D3)
                              - Tells officials that my parenting is "barely adequate" (in black and white)
                              - tried to control who was at access visits. Tried to control supervisors. interrogates D3 and until this day complains in court when D3 doesn't say to much.
                              - Wont budge 30 mins in the mornings .. forcing me to hire a sitter for 30 mins
                              - Dictated 3 hour access, ignored any requests for extensions. Made me miss work to suit her Welfare schedule and trips to QC. Making sure the 3 hours was during her exact nap time.

                              -Refuses mediation and/or separation agreements (by ignoring requests)

                              - Still wont allow me at her address, even though she knows I know it.
                              - We wont even get n to the allegations

                              And nothings good enough for me? I cant negotiate anything? I tried negotiating since Feb 15th, the day she left in a calm, polite manner. She laughed in my face with her LAO lawyer and spit on me when I was down.

                              She has some nerve with those e-mails. lol Kind of just reminds me that everything happens for a reason. I wouldn't want to be with a person who is capable of such things. Anyone who hears this story says the same thing. Unspeakable.

                              And yet when I hear that she's alone for x-mas my first gut reaction is that I feel bad. Why? Because Im a good person.

                              Ourfamilywizard is sounding better and friggen better. Doesn't that have a "defensiveness" or "tone" meter thingy?
                              Last edited by LovingFather32; 12-23-2014, 11:40 AM.

                              Comment


                              • I think that if I were in a divorce/custody battle with a high-conflict ex, the first thing I would ask my lawyer to do is get an order for My Family Wizard.

                                It seems the email/texting between parents is problematic.

                                LF32 I believe I saw a post at one time where someone mentioned something about a "tone" monitor. I'm sure someone who has experience with the program will chime in here. I've heard nothing negative whatsoever about the program. I surmise that high-conflict people don't want to even try the program.

                                Comment

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