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  • #31
    now from the other end of the spectrum...

    Also know this: child support is payable until he can prove that it is not. Do no be bullied by his lawyer saying it is no longer payable. The onus is on him to show that the child no longer needs support.[/QUOTE]

    So in my case both ex & D will not admit to me that D has quit uni after one semester. School will not tell me if she is attending and ex just says because she was registered in Sept that is all the proof she needs to give me and I can basically keep paying CS and piss off. I will be contacting FRO next week to see what proof they need from me but will they not require ex to prove that D is actually attending school? This system is so f***ed up.
    I would happily contribute to D's education but she refuses to give me any info I request (mentioned in previous posts ) and has started making false allegations just like ex does whenever I dare question anything, sigh.
    Cheers all.

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    • #32
      Personally I think the onus is on the child and receiving parent to prove a child is still dependent once they turn 18.

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      • #33
        BF has said that in his opinion the onus is on the receiver. Well, that's not the law. At least, not exactly.
        Your responsibilty is to ask the recipient/daugher for proof of enrolment and/or proof of completion. You can't 'badger' by asking every month (i'm not suggesting you are, by the way) but you can at least ask each semester. the receiver/daughter's responsibility is to not to deny you such reasonable requests and to notify you if the child is no longer a "child of the marriage" (out of school and self-supporting). If they fail to do so, it is called "blameworthy conduct". If it happens that they are defrauding you by pretendign the child is a "child of the marriage" then you will have recourse, but just not immediately.
        At FIRST, CS continues to be payable until it is no longer payable.....so yes, immediately after the child is no longer a "child of the marriage" as defined by the Divorce Act (meaning, in your case, in school and not self supporting), there is might be no immediate mechanisms (other than agreement) for termination of child support. This allows for the child to change programs and that sort of thing.
        If it's simply a fraud perpetrated by the receiver/daughter to get 4 more months of support, it won't work though. CS can be retroactively terminated....all you have to do to protect that right is let the receiver know that if the child is no longer in school and no longer "a child of the marriage" then you will be requesting a retro-active refund of CS for any period in which you paid and the child was no longer a "child of the marriage".
        FRO, however, will do nothing for you in this regard. Their hands are tied. They have to keep collecting until they are notified by agreement between the two of you or by court order to stop. I'm sure you can appreciate why that might have to be the case. The best they can do is, on your request, send a letter to the receiver saying, basically, "the payer says the child is no longer a child of the marriage and support should end. Do you agree?" and all the receiver has to do is check off "no" and send it back and CS will continue to be collected.
        But have heart........if it is fraud, then you will get a refund of overpayement as long as you tell the receiver that you want to stop paying when the child is out of school and that you would like regular and reasonable assurance that the child is still productively in school. and if the child found that program X was too hard for them and they re-enrol in a more appropriate program Y next term instead and be successful, you managed to continue to support your child through an important life decision and career launch.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Berner_Faith View Post
          Personally I think the onus is on the child and receiving parent to prove a child is still dependent once they turn 18.
          Personally you sound very tainted and clearly young and innocent. Just remember what your sweetie has done to someone else who birth his kids he is quite capable of finding another youngen who will be on this site defending his behaviour when he does the same to you. History is a real good indicator of what will happen in the future. So just be aware.

          As for the OP, you have rights and so do your kids, I believe it is split 1/3, 1/3, 1/3. Stand up for this- and dont be intimidated. Make sure you don't give "in" to any of his demands unless he is playing fair ball.
          RESEARCH as much as you can.

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          • #35
            I am unsure how my age has anything to do with it? If you have bothered to read some of my posts you will see that what he tells me about his past wife I take with a grain of salt, I don't believe much of what he tells me, you would also be aware that she is the one that called off the relationship via email, of course he has something to do with the relationship breakdown, no one can every say 'they didn't see it coming'.

            I also know 'beenthere' has requested many times for proof his daughter is still in school but Mom and daughter do not want to provide him any information. An easy way to stop this sort of bahaviour is to simply stop paying until they prove she is enrolled, of course he should bank the money but if the onus is always on the payer to prove support should deminish, why would the reciever cooperate? In situations like this, the reciever is sitting on her hands just to collect CS.

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            • #36
              BF-- I am feeling the maternal instinct kick in, sorry.
              If at the onset of a relationship which I presume you are ,being that you are 22 yrs of age, I must voice my opinion-you said, "what he tells me about his past wife I take with a grain of salt","I don't believe much of what he tells me," You need to be very careful....
              I know from your posts you have been very independant and self sufficient, good for you, but that doesnt negate the responsibility of parents who can well afford to help their children at university.
              I am a mother and if you were my child I would make you very aware of what you are getting yourself into.
              If you are as intelligent and bright as you appear in your posts, take a reality check on how your partner is behaving with children he brought into this world. It seems as though he is looking for every OUT he can get to not take ownership of his responsibilities. I look for every opportunity to help my children even if the law doesnt require me to do so.
              The test of a charachter is not the behaviour when things are "good", the test is when things aren't.

              The OP should receive a much help as she can get for her kids to finish their education. If they are able to work part time and contribute that is wonderful but still does not negate the fact they have a father who can well afford to help---and really he shouldnt have to be asked--he should want to.
              Why kind of people are in this world? Is it all about me and what is good for me, not even to care or be concerned about the life you brought into this world.
              Last edited by momforever1956; 01-12-2013, 04:21 PM.

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              • #37
                My partner is in no way, shape or form a perfect Dad, in fact sometimes he is a really crappy Dad... he himself is from a divorced family and growing up his father was far from a roll model. There are often times we get in arguments about the children because he fails to take responsibility (which I can only assume is one of the reasons their relationship broke down). Through this all I have learned a lot and one of the biggest things I have learned, I am not longer looking to get married... sure it may happen down the road, but that will not happen until we are both equal in the relationship, I am also in no rush to have any children until the two children that are currently in my life have what they need. I for one understand the fact that his responsibilities will always be to those two kids before any children we have, which is why until we are well on our feet, children will not happen. I don't wish to have a child that will not be fully supported in every way and I have fully accepted that I may never have a biological child, but one doesn't have to be blood to be a parent.

                I can't say for sure how he was in his past relationship, I do know he took paternal leave when both the kids were born, but that was mostly for financial reasons in their relationship (or so I am told). In many ways he is a great man and we do have a great relationship, but he does need to approve on his parenting skills, but as has been said before... you can't force someone to be a parent.

                I often find the biggest issue is by the time children reach the age that college/university comes around, payers are sometimes tapped out. I truly think it would be different if one was not forced to pay CS and post secondary, reason being is that it is often argued that the parent still has to maintain a home for the child to come home to, which may seem reasonable, but think of it this way... I can't think of anyone who downgrades their house when their children attended college/university, sure years down the road some people downgrade, but the argument of they must maintain a house is obscene seeing as they would be maintaining the house even if the child didn't come home (especially is other children are involved).

                I agree by law the parents should contribute, but morally is doesn't mean it is right, as I stated, intact parents are not force to contribute if they don't want to, most do...however they are not forced.

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                • #38
                  CS is not an option, it is a responsibility. If more people would be a little more "adult" in their thinking and behaviour maybe there wouldn't be so much CS and discussion about post secondary. You bring a child into this world you have responsibility, PERIOD.
                  If you chose to find ways to relieve yourself of this and look for way to reduce this obligation than you shall pay the consequences and they could be quite huge ones.
                  You my dear BF deserve better!!! You deserve a man who loves you, who conducts himself as an adult. A man who is an example of a caring, loving, father,, you deserve that. You sound wise beyond your years and just on a side note from a "mom" of 2 male adult children, there isn't anything better than children.

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                  • #39
                    Sorry, I should have worded that better... CS is not an option as the children grow, but what often taps out the payer is when they have to pay for post secondary and still pay full CS, even though the majority of the time the children are not living at home anymore. I would agree that CS should be paid in the summer months when the children are home, but the majority of the time, the children are only home maybe every other weekend, yet the receiver still receives full CS.

                    Don't get me wrong, my partner is a very loving man and father, he loves his children, however he is more focused on being the "fun" parent than actually parenting, a lot of that stems from his up bringing I am sure. He never truly had "parents", heck one of the first times I met him he was late to a tournament because he had to go bail his Mom out of jail because she was caught with a grow op in his basement... he doesn't have the skills per say that some other parents have. His children have a blast playing with him and they do listen to him when he tells them to do something, he just lacks some (or most) of that parental responsibility and when they are not with us, he sometimes forgets he still has to be a parent.

                    I agree with you, there is nothing better than children. I love children and sometimes I am ashamed to admit but when there are gatherings going on, I spend more time playing with the kids than I do with the adults. I do not partake in the social drinking or drinking at all to be honest, so I much rather spend time bonding with not only my step kids, but also some very close family friends.

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                    • #40
                      Post secondary is not the same as CS. CS is for food, clothing and shelter and post secondary is for education to allow the child to aquire skills for independance. I beg your pardon but so many "payors" are tapped out , yet when I see their books , (I am an accountant) trust me on this one, there are lots, not all but lots of people who travel, enjoy dinners out etc etc.
                      You bring a child into this world and you have financial, moral ,ethical and legal responsibilities and if you are fortunate that you as parents are in a financial position to help you then so you should. It is disgusting that because of a man and woman chose to divorce the children have to endure the consequences for if their parents hadnt divorced they would have supported them through university.
                      My vote is for the OP to go after all she can for her children.

                      Ohhh BTW, excuses are just that, excuses, how he was parented, how old he is, what his boss said, what his x did, doesnt matter, his behaviour DOES!!!!!!!!
                      As for you BF, sounds to me at 22 yrs of age you are way more mature than the gent you are dating and furthermore it sounds like you deserve a brighter future with a real man. To be mothering step-children at 22 years of age is a huge responsibility but to be mothering a immature father is completely nuts.
                      You need some quiet time and figure this one out. You seem to know on some level that something isn't right. Set higher standards for yourself---you deserve them. If it doesn't feel right and sound right and look right-then it isn't right. You are an adult and spending time with children is a blessing but it sure sounds to me as your trust factor in this man is lacking, and so it should.
                      Is this how you want to start out your life? A man who behaves irresponsibly, someone you obviously don't trust, don't believe and would not want to father your children? I would think that a loving partner would be a man you respect, hold in high regard, admire him as a father and a man, but instead it seems you are hand holding him to grow up. It is one thing to mother a child but mothering a partner is not your job. Reality check!!!!
                      Last edited by momforever1956; 01-12-2013, 08:01 PM.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by momforever1956 View Post
                        It is disgusting that because of a man and woman chose to divorce the children have to endure the consequences for if their parents hadnt divorced they would have supported them through university.
                        That's quite the assumption.

                        Originally posted by momforever1956 View Post
                        Reality check!!!!
                        I'm sure the poster that you keep trying to analyze is more than capable of making what she believes are the correct choices/decisions for her family's future.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by firhill View Post
                          That's quite the assumption.



                          I'm sure the poster that you keep trying to analyze is more than capable of making what she believes are the correct choices/decisions for her family's future.
                          Agreed... as I said...my parents were intact and never paid for my education and I know many intact families that are like this, unfortunately some kids have everything handed to them.

                          Also, thank you, while he may not be a perfect parent, does not mean he is a bad person, there are many posters here who are not perfect parents, no one is perfect and in a relationship you learn to deal with ones faults, trust me, I have many faults of my own and together we make our family unit work, I mean, relationship is about compromise is it not?

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                          • #43
                            Hi all,
                            Just catching up with the responses. I have been excluded from D's life since the day ex took her from our home. It has escalated ever since, spent 20 k trying just for access due to my career traveling to the butt-holes of the world for the good of our country. Ex is a narcissistic power tripping nutbar from hell, just ask her current soon to be ex-husband. This is not my excuse but there is no way to deal with crazy, no matter what you say or don't say you are to blame, it is all your fault and you are the biggest disappointment on the planet according to your child because they are completely brainwashed by the parent they live with. I have been told to shove my RESP money up my ass by the ex so she doesn't have to confirm D is in school now, WTF! She just wants CS to continue so she can keep D's 2 horses for her to ride while she is resting from the "trauma" of being away from home at the most expensive residence the uni had to offer. I of course was never allowed to have a say in any of this. I think momforever1956 needs a reality check, there are always 2 sides to every story.
                            Thanks BF, you seem to have a grip on the real world, cheers.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by momforever1956 View Post
                              You bring a child into this world and you have financial, moral ,ethical and legal responsibilities and if you are fortunate that you as parents are in a financial position to help you then so you should.
                              You are certainly welcome to help your children. Intact families do not have an obligation to pay for university, so why do divorced families suddenly pick up that obligation?

                              If the law was changed so that kids from all types of families had the right to extract university tuition from their parents, then I would still not like it, but at least it would be fair.

                              It is disgusting that because of a man and woman chose to divorce the children have to endure the consequences for if their parents hadnt divorced they would have supported them through university.
                              Divorce involves a massive drop in income for the entire family. Luckily for custodial parents, the entire pain of the drop is borne by the non-custodial parent... but that also impacts upon the ability of the NCP to fund a university education.

                              You can't think of things in terms of "how they used to be". Things are what they are now. Before the marriage broke down, university may have been affordable. After a marriage breakdown, it may not be. Parents should have the right to make the decision as to whether or not it is still affordable.

                              My vote is for the OP to go after all she can for her children.
                              My vote is for recipients to get a job instead of acting like entitled parasites if they care so much about their children. Seriously, unless you are disabled, get off your ass and get a job like the rest of us adults.

                              Comment

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