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  • #31
    If she incurred debt on something that was in his name, and is trying to stick him with it, then she is on the hook for 50% of it, even if she did go on a shopping spree the day after separation.

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    • #32
      This to me is a strange situation.

      Option 1:
      -You sell the company and split the asset. She gets her share and you get yours. You now have NO JOB - will you be ordered to pay spousal support and if so on the basis of what income?

      Option 2:
      -You buy her out of the company so you pay her a LUMP SUM up front (awesome for her).
      -You then have to pay her spousal support based on the earnings of 100% of the company which she awarded benefitted from via splitting the asset and now benefits again in the from of Spousal support. This reminds me of double dipping (Boston vs Boston) - I think there is a lot of double dipping in divorce though...
      ______________

      That being said you are going to pay spousal support for the rest of your life unless you cannot work or something and even then they might award her a lump sum because you are unlikely to pay long enough to compensate her.

      Consider that your story about your illness will be considered a lie and you have to go the extra mile to prove it beyond the shadow of a doubt and very VERY explicitly.
      ______________
      Last edited by Links17; 10-15-2014, 01:30 PM.

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      • #33
        Here is the best news I have received all day. It is confirmed by 2 lawyers the lawyer that originally incorporated my Co. And the current family practice lawyer I finally hired today. I unequivocally own 70% of the company, my spouse the balance. She can contest, but will not win a 50-50 split.

        I am now going to read some of the other posts. I was so excited I had to get that out.

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        • #34
          Your post Links17 is very interesting. I discussed with my lawyer today the thought of a lifestyle change. I am not a complicated guy. Sell everything but North cottage. Give her 1/2. Move north. Not work. Exist on a lifestyle of 12-15k a year. I could do it and be content. I asked the question to my lawyer does she now control my lifestyle? Her short answer was no but somehow the subject moved on to something else quickly.

          I also discussed in detail my marriage contract. I personally beleive it is nothing more than a negotiating paper but since it clearly say no support and spouse thinks it is long gone she beleive it should be asked how they come up with 4 k month support when we have documentation that advises 0.

          I am feeling much better today mentally and physically and grateful to have found this place to vent. Sure would be a laugh if my spouse has to but she hates to read so no chance.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Craigerst View Post
            Here is the best news I have received all day. It is confirmed by 2 lawyers the lawyer that originally incorporated my Co. And the current family practice lawyer I finally hired today. I unequivocally own 70% of the company, my spouse the balance. She can contest, but will not win a 50-50 split.

            I am now going to read some of the other posts. I was so excited I had to get that out.
            Did they also confirm that you have DONT have to balance out the equalization (make it 50-50 overall) by giving her other assets?

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            • #36
              You have a marital contract that says support is 0$?

              -Did you guys have kids? Did she make any sacrifices for the family unit
              -Was that contract signed under guidance of lawyers?
              -was there any undue pressure?

              It probably won't stand... but there is a very small chance it might if you can prove she made no sacrifices for the family and she is getting rich off splitting assets anyways.

              SS is based on 3 things
              -compensatory: if no sacrifice - you're good here.
              -non-compensatory: if she gets tonnes of assets she can support herself
              -contractual: you have a contract - so as good as you are going to get

              For fun: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle7284629/
              Last edited by Links17; 10-15-2014, 05:24 PM.

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              • #37
                Dinky,
                Yes. It is a Seperate issue. I will have to effectively pay out 30 percent of appraised value of the limited company but do not have to "make it up" in the equalization payment. I do not drink much but I went out and had not 1 but 2.

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                • #38
                  You can have a wonderful agreement drawn up (when you were in your early 20s, still enamoured with each other, and the future is rosy and old age/retirement isn't considered). When you signed the agreement did the 2 of you get independent legal advice?

                  I would strongly recommend that you start doing your homework and read everything you can regarding spousal support. Start by looking at the Government of Canada website. After that go to a website which publishes many cases from across the country: CANLII Type in: long term TRADITIONAL marriage spousal support. Key word being "traditional" as your wife did not work outside of the home. You can then read the individual judge's reasoning for why or why not spousal support was awarded, along with the particular relevant law. This is what your lawyer is going to be doing (or having a law clerk do it for him).

                  Do yourself a favor and make sure that you retain a lawyer with experience in dealing with long-term marriage/divorce. Also ask for references.


                  By the way, who gets the 70% of the business?
                  Last edited by arabian; 10-15-2014, 06:48 PM.

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                  • #39
                    Links 17,
                    I have a spousal agreement from 1987 that says she gets 0 support and spells out support for children ( children are past dependent age so no matter ). I do not beleive it will stand up in court clean and simple. However, it is a good thing to have as a negotiating tool since she thinks I long ago threw it away and apparently has not advised her law team of it as far as I can tell. My intention is to not let my lawyer spend too much time on it since it basically is worth nothing but threats and tactics. In other words I will not waste 395.00 an hour trying to defend a useless piece of paper.

                    My ex just left here ( I am in the matrimonial home ). She just discovered that I discovered a 35,000.00 diamond heart pendant that had been passed down through generations that she accidently forgot. I of course took it. Needless to say she is hot. Am I right or wrong to take it? In my defence: it is from my side of the family. I have fond memories of both my grandmother and mother wearing it. She claims it was given to her so it was hers and got all geared up and sentimental. I am venti g again but better you guys than my lawyer at 395 an hour. Emotionally today I feel strong and healthy.

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                    • #40
                      Arabian I think what you are trying to say is the agreement means sfa and I agree. I get the 70 percent. My father gave me the advice when I incorporated the business. Maybe he was suspicious of her. Who knows.

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                      • #41
                        Here is the funny thing about the split. I had serious brain issues about 7 or 8 years ago and lost parts of my memory. As a result I had no idea of the share split percent. I desperately tried to remember who incorporated me no luck. A sharp lawyer spotted something in my articles of incorporation that referred to a old lawyer. I tracked him down. HE had my minutes book and my first and only entry was the share split! Thank the Lord. I kinda remembered that but was not sure. This complicates my situation since I have to answer I do not remember to my lawyer so much. Tuesday I drove up and down the road where I remembered the lawyer wrote our spousal agreement was to see if it would "trigger" a memory as to wether my spouse got independedent legal advice. My brain does do this. It did not in this case.

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                        • #42
                          -the share percentages in the company don’t really matter, you could be the sole shareholder. She is entitled to a 50% interest, regardless of share ownership. The company will be valued, she’ll transfer her shares in consideration of a 50% equalization value;

                          - don’t rely on a 30 year old corporate minute book. They are as shaky as your memory. What have you each been filing with the CRA the last gadzillion years? Those filings will govern;

                          - the 30yr old marriage contract is junk. Her lawyer will know that. Posters - we’ve discussed this before. You have to stay on top of this stuff;

                          - your estimate on family jewellery is suspect [most people over appraise Grandma’s wedding ring] and, if it was gifted to her, it is hers, and its value will be excluded from your financial statements. If is can be considered your inheritance and you allowed her to wear it, then you can likely exclude it from your value. However, based on your initial posts here, I certainly would not have a doubt that it was hers (my MIL gave me family jewels as well, which will end with kidlet) -- and I have yet to see the lawyer arguments for or against -

                          - you don’t appear to understand you are on the downstroke here, and I’m not sure antagonizing her is going to work to your long term benefit;

                          - from your financial numbers you have posted, the two of you were at the lower end of retirement income as a family pre-divorce. Now that all will be divided equally, you’ll both have several years of working ahead of you. Your struggles will be equal - yours with memory loss, hers with never having worked. I'm not sure where she will even start;

                          - Self-employed - did you pay into CPP? She’s entitled to half of that as well. As a sahm, she obviously has not paid into CPP.

                          = SS and lines of credit/debt - if you haven’t been paying her interim SS, she can likely claim draws on the LOC are in lieu of. Judges tend to frown on starving your partner of 30 years out. And you won’t be the first that has tried. Don't bother attempting to convince a judge she's not entitled after being a sahm for 30 years;


                          Arabian - he can have 100% of the business following equalization, as part of the equalization she'll transfer her shares to him. He’ll need the income and the book of clients to pay ss and hopefully, keep at least the condo.

                          OP - you need to list that Mat home now - quick, get her consent before you antagonize her further. That asset will need to be sold so that both of you can move forward.
                          Start a discussion, not a fire. Post with kindness.

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                          • #43
                            Macdreamy. At the risk of offending I appreciate your feedback but the law is the law on some of your statements and I think you are wrong. I agree 100 percent on others. Thanks for your feedback. I will explain myself further later my friend.

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                            • #44
                              For the family jewelery I read that WEDDING GIFTS = family property, pre-wedding gifts = recipient's property. This might be Quebec only and also wrong.

                              Please let me know what your lawyer says about the spousal support if you company is sold.

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                              • #45
                                getting caught up in arguments about "stuff" is fodder to the lawyers

                                Agree with McDreamy about valuation of "family jewels" - almost always limp and worthless....

                                My ex and I owned a business and let me tell you the legal costs of having to deal with corporate lawyer (and in my case criminal lawyers) just triples costs and adds to anxiety.

                                Talk to you wife in the presence of the accountant. That would be the safe road to sanity. Afterwards the two of you can "instruct" your respective lawyers of your intentions/agreements. Doing it this way will save you a pile of money (over 20k easy).

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