Life After The Motion

[wantmyfreedom]

I know you are worried about losing your daughter but do not let this overcome you. It is very difficult to remove custodial rights from a parent.

1. OCL - don't be discouraged by the letter you rec'd. It is their protocol and is usually a template when they write back to somebody. The reason why your lawyer wrote to them is to show the trial judge that you officially disagreed with their position. The trial judge will ask you ....dad....if the report was so bad why didn't you dispute it?
2. Don't stress about OCL. The counsellor you had expertise in a different arena. Not abuse and DV. At trial her findings will be sticken because she does not have the clinical experience to deal with your situation. Your lawyer will shred her on the stand seamlessly. Your lawyer will also point out any bias that led to her findings. It is his job.
3. Credibility matters. She's got alot of shit to say about you but nothing to back it up.
4. Rules of evidence- The tapes. At SC you should be given a transcript I highly doubt they will even be admitted at all. I'm damn sure those tapes do not portray you as a child abuser.
5. Conduct- her actions thus far have been in bad faith. it is clearly evident.
6. The CAS report is good for you. Bad for her.

Do you see where this is going? So far you are looking good.

[Links17]

You need to get transcripts of some of the judge's statements unless he mentions them again in the judgement. It might be useful in the future to show she continues in a pattern which she has already been reprimanded for

[LovingFather32]

I'm not quite sure why the judgement is not yet available.

We presented the case as a "policy changer". We were working to deter things like surreptitious recordings and abduction for tactical advantage. I think the judge wants this to be worded perfectly on canlii and is taking his time putting it together. I want the recordings http://www.ontariocourts.ca/en/forms/Undertaking-Court-Access-DRD.pdf
as well as the transcripts.

If you've run in to my other thread on health records you'll see I was able to get some stuff on my own. But do I still ask for her family Dr's name in an e-mail to see if she'll cooperate?

[LovingFather32]

Settlement Conference is quickly approaching.

At the drop off my ex responded verbally to my e-mail regarding mediation with "I thought that's what our next court date was for". (So nice when its free of charge to just say that. If she had to pay her lawyer for that date Im sure her tone would change).

So I responded with "I just want to know where your mindset is on all of this. If you'd be willing to talk about settling".

She replied "I hope that we can come to some kind of agreement".

Since I have D3 every other weekend and every Wed night. I think it would be great to simply keep her from Wed through Monday on the weekends I have her instead of drop her of Thursday morning just to pick her up again Friday.

Of course Im sure ex realizes this and has enrolled her in another social group Fridays.

I also inquired through e-mail about updated immunizations, any health concerns in the past 8 months, dental work, etc. All Ignored. So Mediation requests denied & Health/Welfare ignored still. Yet she's smiling and showing me pictures of D3 in her playgroup.



I see my lawyer today at 1:30. My offer will be nothing short of 50/50. Will she fight that? I hope for the best but expect the worst.

[arabian]

It will likely come down to the money for your ex IMO.

I hope "some type of agreement" means no relocation out of child's current city of residence, no travel anywhere without your permission, and full financial disclosure.

[LovingFather32]

Can anyone shed some light on this?

Since we hadn't received the written decision/report on my motion as of yet my lawyer sent an e-mail to the presiding judges assistant inquiring about it. She indicated that the transcripts have been added to the file and either party could order the transcripts for themselves if they wanted.

My lawyer and I were hoping that this would end up in canlii (case law coupled with the background, facts, etc).

The judges assistant e-mailed back saying that often times in family court that transcripts suffice and no written decision is required. Is this true? Must be I guess. Drafting up an order off transcripts?

[arabian]

As a person who has been involved in motions for past 4 years, it is my experience that, unless the judge has the Order printed out in the court room, the winning side prepares the Order, submits it to the other side for approval and then the winning side submits it to be filed in the courthouse.

I know things are a bit different there in Ontario as the judges scribble their remarks on the Order.

Check your provincial Rules of Court. If there is no Order coming from judge then your lawyer would be responsible to prepare it and give to other side.

My ex refused to sign Order from May of this year. Transcripts were ordered up and judge got pissed off and just signed the Order a few weeks ago. My lawyer had to file for a fiat in court because of the length of time from when the Order was pronounced and when it actually got filed in court. A lot of wasted time IMO.

As you were essentially the winner you would be entitled to costs would you not?

[MrToronto]

Of course whatever is at the Courthouse your going to go down and pickup.

The finalizing things after a Judgment is rendered is SCREWED UP by judges and like Arabian wrote by a foot dragging OP.

It takes the winning party to push things along until a FINAL ORDER is completed and signed by a Judge.

IF the Judge isn't clear in his/her ENDORSEMENT things become even more fuked up....and you need a 14B I think to get that same Judge to clarify what he/she meant.

IF both winning or losing parties do nothing on a Judge's endorsement or transcript or musings on toilet paper.....then the Court doesn't care.

Court figures I guess the winning party will go "ape sh!t" to get a Final Order made up so why bother chasing parties to get a draft Order completed to be finalized.

In your case.....both parties are doing the access set out by Motion Judge.

The shear fact your getting unsupervised joint interim access mean allegations and OCL report are meaningless.

It would be nice to have the Motion results for Trial....to put into the Trial Record. but it isn't essential for a SC/TMC.

The OP isn't settling... OP is playing STUPID on where settlement is to happen

This can end today by both parties at Tim Horton's.

Your in the BLUFF stage right now by OP, if you stick handle correctly during the process the final result could be in your favor.

Doing your best for SC/TMC is part of it.......to get a good endorsement

OP may settle a month after the SC/TMC.

OP may settle in the hallway just before going into Trial.

The allegations have vaporized for OP and without those allegations all they are doing is wasting your time/money and in direct conflict with the prime directive of Court.

Like Arabian pointed out where are the COSTS.

[LovingFather32]

It is to my understanding that you are not allowed to make copies of transcripts. So the only other option is to order them. Luckily the transcripts are only of his decisions at the end. So that will save some money for sure.

MY offer for SC, among other things is a 2-2-3 type scenario with each parent getting EOW. I get every Wed, Thurs and mom gets every Mon, Tues.

I'm 90% sure that she wont accept this 50/50 split, most for $ reasons Im assuming. So its trial no matter what I guess.

Still denials of mediation and still refusals of health and welfare.

"This can end today by both parties at Tim Horton's."

Yep. Sure could. I've never been absent in child's life. Very capable parent with a very good parenting plan. 50/50 should be fine. Case closed.

Court's free for her though. What motivation does she have to settle? What are costs to someone who cant pay them anyways? As Ive learned at the motion, judges don't seem to like to order costs to ppl who cant pay.

So what does she have to lose by taking this all the way? Custody I suppose.

[good_mom]

Just somthing that I wanted to say...OP puts D3 in all the playgroups but won't put her in school. You know why?

So that D3 is not established in an area and OP then can't run to QC.

I would send her an e-mail naming off all the advantages to D3 and make points that line up with the benifites that D3 gets from play groups.

Add in a list of schools in the aree and send it off...your e-mail is child focused and OP now has to defend why it is not to D3 best intrest.

[LovingFather32]

Just somthing that I wanted to say...OP puts D3 in all the playgroups but won't put her in school. You know why?

So that D3 is not established in an area and OP then can't run to QC.

I would send her an e-mail naming off all the advantages to D3 and make points that line up with the benifites that D3 gets from play groups.

Add in a list of schools in the aree and send it off...your e-mail is child focused and OP now has to defend why it is not to D3 best intrest.

Yes. This is precisely what my lawyer has suggested.

She said NOT to simply register her and send an e-mail saying she's registered. That would make me look like a jerk.

But to send an e-mail with schools in my area which offer, for instance, half day French immersion.

I feel that D3 would benefit from junior kindergarten commencing next Sept. Ex, however, believes D3 should wait another 2 years before attending school. D3 loves being around other kids, has no attachment issues and would benefit greatly from the social/academic experience of junior kindergarten.

[good_mom]

SO you have OP's reply to a e-mail saying no? WOW! talk about not thinking of the child.

[arabian]

Normal people would think twice before continuing losing legal action if they were faced with costs after each time they lose in court (obviously my ex is an exception).

I believe your ex is on social assistance and represented by a freebie lawyer. I would therefore think it very important to send a clear message to the "LAO SCUMBAG LAWYER" with a costs award that he would have to justify to his superiors.

Perhaps I'm missing something here? Losers pay costs do they not?

This "reality" might give your ex something to motivate her to settle.

[Links17]

Welfare, Legal Aid, Govt. Recipients have no motivation to settle and in fact have years and years of large child support payments ahead of them if they win.... Even if she had no legal aid, she'd still get a lawyer because of the cost/benefit.

[Links17]

Interesting case about removal from Ont to Quebec
CanLII - 2014 QCCS 5572 (CanLII)

This is actually the case I was talking about:
http://jurisprudence.canada.globe24h...53-qc-ca.shtml

Its in french though but referred to by the above very recent case...