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  • My wife wants to controll me and my children

    First of all, I would like to thank Dadtotheend and Rioe for their responses I have been given.

    Anyone know a good lawyer in Guelph, Kitchener, Waterloo?

    I am going to make this short, because I just wrote something, and when I tried to post it asked me to login again, and i lost everything..

    Background,
    The wife and I are at the lawyer stage. Never been to court, and are still working on a separation agreement.

    Anyway,
    I told my wife a few days ago, that I didn't want to be taking care of the kids at her place anymore. I have been doing this since Nov 2010 till now. And, of course it would end sometime soon, especially if she found a new mate or something. She called today telling me that "I am uncomfortable about you being in my house" Only a couple of days after telling her that I didn't want to be in hers....

    Later today, I will be picking up my children from daycare, and taking them back to my house. Although after conversing with the wife, she insisted that I drive them back to her house at 8pm... We have a 1.5 yr old daughter that goes to sleep at 6:30pm and another that is 3yrs that goes to sleep around 7:30pm. Begridgedly, I said that I would bring them back for 8pm... I also don't agree with waking them to take them back to the wife's place. Even though she is only 2 blocks away.
    Should I call her later today, and tell her that, No,, I won't bring the kids back, and leave her with a decision as to either leave them for overnight, or for her to pick them up herself, and let her be the more disrupting one?
    Would there be any legal ramifications if she were to call the police?

    I love my children, and since recently, I proposed to her that I would like a 60/40 split,, she has come back saying that I can have the children, one day through the week and every other weekend.. and that she would find someone else to take care of the children on the night she works late. And this is to be more conducive to the children??? At the present time, I pick the children up from daycare on Mon, Wed, and have them one day on the weekend,, but not overnight, (60/40). Now, she is trying to control,, She wants 100% custody.. Is this an economic decision, that she is willing to leave my children with another person, when I could have them overnight in a caring home, just to maintain a 100% custody?

    Thank you for viewing and giving your advice,
    Needadvice

  • #2
    Children's Law Reform Act
    <!-- TRANSIT - HYPERLINK --><!-- .r&#233;forme du droit de l'enfance (Loi portant), L.R.O. 1990, chap. C.12. -->20.<!-- TRANSIT - HYPERLINK --><!-- .r&#233;forme du droit de l'enfance (Loi portant), L.R.O. 1990, chap. C.12. --> (1) Except as otherwise provided in this Part, the father and the mother of a child are equally entitled to custody of the child. R.S.O. 1990, c. C.12, s. 20 (1).
    Rights and responsibilities
    <!-- TRANSIT - HYPERLINK --><!-- .r&#233;forme du droit de l'enfance (Loi portant), L.R.O. 1990, chap. C.12. -->(2) A person entitled to custody of a child has the rights and responsibilities of a parent in respect of the person of the child and must exercise those rights and responsibilities in the best interests of the child. R.S.O. 1990, c. C.12, s. 20 (2).
    Authority to act
    <!-- TRANSIT - HYPERLINK --><!-- .r&#233;forme du droit de l'enfance (Loi portant), L.R.O. 1990, chap. C.12. -->(3) Where more than one person is entitled to custody of a child, any one of them may exercise the rights and accept the responsibilities of a parent on behalf of them in respect of the child. R.S.O. 1990, c. C.12, s. 20 (3).
    Where parents separate
    <!-- TRANSIT - HYPERLINK --><!-- .r&#233;forme du droit de l'enfance (Loi portant), L.R.O. 1990, chap. C.12. -->(4) Where the parents of a child live separate and apart and the child lives with one of them with the consent, implied consent or acquiescence of the other of them, the right of the other to exercise the entitlement of custody and the incidents of custody, but not the entitlement to access, is suspended until a separation agreement or order otherwise provides. R.S.O. 1990, c. C.12, s. 20 (4).
    Note: On a day to be named by proclamation of the Lieutenant Governor, section 20 is amended by section 77 by adding the following subsection:
    Duty of separated parents
    (4a) Where the parents of a child live separate and apart and the child is in the custody of one of them and the other is entitled to access under the terms of a separation agreement or order, each shall, in the best interests of the child, encourage and support the child’s continuing parent-child relationship with the other. R.S.O. 1990, c. C.12, s. 77.
    See: R.S.O. 1990, c. C.12, ss. 77, 85.
    Access
    <!-- TRANSIT - HYPERLINK --><!-- .r&#233;forme du droit de l'enfance (Loi portant), L.R.O. 1990, chap. C.12. -->(5) The entitlement to access to a child includes the right to visit with and be visited by the child and the same right as a parent to make inquiries and to be given information as to the health, education and welfare of the child. R.S.O. 1990, c. C.12, s. 20 (5).
    If she calls the police too bad. You don't have a separation agreement or a court order, she does not have the right to dictate to you anything regarding the children If you did have a court order, the police are still extremely reluctant to get involved. They will not generally seize the children and they certainly won't press charges (unless the children are at risk). The most she could do if you had a court order is to go to court and file a motion claiming you were not abiding by the court order. She could seek a clause for police enforcement of the order, even with this the co-operation of the police is poor.

    You should understand that she may not know all this and may just go wild and start phoning the police. You need to have your verbal response ready. You stay calm, you stay reasonable, you do not raise your voice, you do not get upset, you do not gesture wildly, you invite the police inside and tell them they can look around all they want to determine that the children aren't at risk. You tell them that the two of you have joint, shared custody of the children at least until a court order is settled and leave it at that. Use my exact words.

    You need to stand your ground on this because she is trying to play you in order to get what she wants in court. There is a status quo where you have the children at this point 3 days a week. There is no reason whatsoever you cannot have them overnights this amount of time. You would be within 60/40 and in the shared parenting range. She is trying to establish a new status quo where she has full custody.

    You have to decide where you are going with this and you have to decide today. If she establishes a status quo of full custody then you will have hell trying to fight this in court. Do not engage in arguments with her. Make clear simple assertions, don't be emotional, don't talk about her or what she wants or what she is doing, don't criticize her or get dragged into an argument criticizing you. Just state that the children are happy having overnights with you, there is no reason to deny them, and you will keep them on your regular days. I suggest that if you want to have shared custody then you start immediately and just do it. If you don't then you are giving the custody over to her, the decision has to start now.

    Comment


    • #3
      If things are still amicable enough that she has been mostly okay with you being in her home with the children up till now, you definitely want to be nonconfrontational about suggesting changes to keep that amicable state. I would not recommend calling her over the phone and saying you aren't bringing the children back. Keep changes collaborative. It might be annoying, and hard on the kids one night, but you don't want to spring last minute changes on the ex, so return them as planned today, and then have a discussion with the ex later about a better way of doing it (ie, overnight with you). If you spring it on her last minute, with no good way for her to disagree, it's guaranteed to become confrontational. She'll feel you're trying to control her and manipulate her, and it will all go downhill from there. You want the decision to be collaborative, as it will help her see the best interests of your children, and not get her hackles up and have her react defensively without thinking and fight you back.

      After the first return where you have to wake the kids up, arrange a time to discuss new arrangements with your ex, in person, away from the kids. Then you can say that it's too hard on them to have to wake them up and move them, and what kind of way of doing it would be better, that still involves you caring for them, but doesn't involve you being in her home.

      You can feel her out about why she doesn't like it. Does she think your home is not suitable for them to stay at? Is it messy or small or not good sleeping arrangements or something? Is it just the loss of child support money she's worried about? Is it simple greed, or would she be unable to keep affording her own home without that money? It's likely there's an underlying reason for her insistence on getting them back, even if it means waking them up, and you need to nail it down so you can address it.

      Peculiarly, I'm on the other side of the fence of your issue, as I've got my ex looking after our kids in my home instead of his, and it does make me uncomfortable, but we agreed it was best for our sons. So I might be able to offer some insight into the other end of the situation later when I have more time.

      But anyways, don't just not return them as planned, is my main advice. Work hard to change the plans before next time, but what you're considering doing might start a true divorce war.

      Comment


      • #4
        Thank you Mess and Rioe,

        Mess, I will keep your very useful information in my back pocket for later use.

        Rioe, I think what you have said above makes sense for right now. I did tell her that I would drop them off. And, should keep my word. It seems right now that she is becoming volatile, I can see it. She is eagerly waiting a signature on our separation agreement because the settlement would be good.

        As for my living arrangements with the children, I am living in the matrimonial home, and have more than adequate arrangements for the children if they were to stay the night. I won't say that my house is spic and span,, However, when they come to me for the one day on the weekend, I am up early tidying up and vacuuming. I have a dog that sheds, and don't care to see the hair on them.

        I think the main motivation for her is the money as she has bought her own house with the help of her father and wants to pay it back. Also, I think she has over extended her spending on new things for the house and realizes that there are other bills to pay as well.

        I would like to pose another question if I may.
        Without a settlement or anything, I have been paying child support at a rate of 100&#37; for both children.. Am I entitled to change it to the 60/40? For now? I know this will add fuel to the fire. Although It is getting harder for me to cope too, seeing that my bank account is dwindling with paying full support and childcare costs.
        Am I actually seeing them at the 60/40 split? (Sorry Mess, just asking again)
        I know this is probably debateable.
        Or, Should I be paying the child support at all until an agreement is signed or a court order is in place? If I stop paying CS or lower it to the 60/40 margin, how will this look to the courts if it goes that far? I will however, keep paying the 1/2 of childcare.

        Best regards,
        Needadvice

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Mess View Post
          You have to decide where you are going with this and you have to decide today. If she establishes a status quo of full custody then you will have hell trying to fight this in court. Do not engage in arguments with her. Make clear simple assertions, don't be emotional, don't talk about her or what she wants or what she is doing, don't criticize her or get dragged into an argument criticizing you. Just state that the children are happy having overnights with you, there is no reason to deny them, and you will keep them on your regular days. I suggest that if you want to have shared custody then you start immediately and just do it. If you don't then you are giving the custody over to her, the decision has to start now.
          Yes! There seems to be tendancy for fathers to start asking permission for access (being too nice?), but unfortunately that simple act/attitude establishes that the mother has the power to dictate where the kids will be. Beware of assuming this 'supplicant' role when you already have joint custody.

          Comment


          • #6
            Probably a good idea to get a digital recorder, to record all your conversations with the Ex. It is a good defense against false allegations, should your Ex start calling the police about Assaults / Threats / Harassment.

            Comment


            • #7
              You are right dinkyface. I have been too submissive to my dictator!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by walshch View Post
                Probably a good idea to get a digital recorder, to record all your conversations with the Ex. It is a good defense against false allegations, should your Ex start calling the police about Assaults / Threats / Harassment.

                In order to do this, am I obliged to tell her that I will be recording conversations?

                Comment


                • #9
                  No. If all parties in a conversation are aware (or if one can reasonably assume they are aware) of your 'presence' i.e. they are aware that you can hear them, then you can record without permission.
                  Last edited by dinkyface; 03-30-2011, 11:53 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by walshch View Post
                    Probably a good idea to get a digital recorder, to record all your conversations with the Ex. It is a good defense against false allegations, should your Ex start calling the police about Assaults / Threats / Harassment.
                    I also use Skype for calls... It;s very convenient to be able to record skype conversation (you can find plug-in for free)

                    Once I called my ex's lawyer and his secretary before put phone down said stupid or something ... Now they talk much better when I call ))

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by needadvice View Post
                      First of all, I would like to thank Dadtotheend and Rioe for their responses I have been given.

                      Anyone know a good lawyer in Guelph, Kitchener, Waterloo?

                      I am going to make this short, because I just wrote something, and when I tried to post it asked me to login again, and i lost everything..

                      Background,
                      The wife and I are at the lawyer stage. Never been to court, and are still working on a separation agreement.

                      Anyway,
                      I told my wife a few days ago, that I didn't want to be taking care of the kids at her place anymore. I have been doing this since Nov 2010 till now. And, of course it would end sometime soon, especially if she found a new mate or something. She called today telling me that "I am uncomfortable about you being in my house" Only a couple of days after telling her that I didn't want to be in hers....

                      Later today, I will be picking up my children from daycare, and taking them back to my house. Although after conversing with the wife, she insisted that I drive them back to her house at 8pm... We have a 1.5 yr old daughter that goes to sleep at 6:30pm and another that is 3yrs that goes to sleep around 7:30pm. Begridgedly, I said that I would bring them back for 8pm... I also don't agree with waking them to take them back to the wife's place. Even though she is only 2 blocks away.
                      Should I call her later today, and tell her that, No,, I won't bring the kids back, and leave her with a decision as to either leave them for overnight, or for her to pick them up herself, and let her be the more disrupting one?
                      Would there be any legal ramifications if she were to call the police?

                      I love my children, and since recently, I proposed to her that I would like a 60/40 split,, she has come back saying that I can have the children, one day through the week and every other weekend.. and that she would find someone else to take care of the children on the night she works late. And this is to be more conducive to the children??? At the present time, I pick the children up from daycare on Mon, Wed, and have them one day on the weekend,, but not overnight, (60/40). Now, she is trying to control,, She wants 100&#37; custody.. Is this an economic decision, that she is willing to leave my children with another person, when I could have them overnight in a caring home, just to maintain a 100% custody?

                      Thank you for viewing and giving your advice,
                      Needadvice
                      Do not allow.this.to happen...you will regret it.....she is trying to establish you at.under the 60/40 split...hence.paying full table child support...and you'll have have to pay that babysitter to look after your child...when you can do it perfectly fine. Do not.let mom do this...you will regret it...and you will let her controll you now...it will be for the rest.of the children's lives...and she will have a court order telling you that you have to....don't be the next.dad in here that says" I didn't think she would do that"..or that you didn't think it would happen to you.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Well, just a little update.
                        I think I have found a new lawyer. Waiting for her to call me back.
                        I did have the kids today, at my house. And, did return them to the wife at approx 8:30pm. Felt so bad having to get the little one up.
                        That's okay...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          06nomad,
                          I hear what you are saying. Her true colours are coming out... Funny how someone can be so nice in the presence of company, and turn into Medusa when not in the presence of company.
                          I think the new lawyer I am getting, will straighten this ambiguity between the wife and I and the children.

                          However, in the mean time.. Lets say it is my night to take care of the kids, and she won't let me have them when I go to pick them up?
                          it's too easy for her to just close the door and say good night.
                          any thoughts?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by 06nomad View Post
                            Do not allow.this.to happen...you will regret it.....she is trying to establish you at.under the 60/40 split...hence.paying full table child support...and you'll have have to pay that babysitter to look after your child...when you can do it perfectly fine. Do not.let mom do this...you will regret it...and you will let her controll you now...it will be for the rest.of the children's lives...and she will have a court order telling you that you have to....don't be the next.dad in here that says" I didn't think she would do that"..or that you didn't think it would happen to you.
                            Originally posted by needadvice View Post
                            06nomad,
                            I hear what you are saying. Her true colours are coming out... Funny how someone can be so nice in the presence of company, and turn into Medusa when not in the presence of company.
                            I think the new lawyer I am getting, will straighten this ambiguity between the wife and I and the children.

                            However, in the mean time.. Lets say it is my night to take care of the kids, and she won't let me have them when I go to pick them up?
                            it's too easy for her to just close the door and say good night.
                            any thoughts?
                            Its not an easy answer.Let her be the one that's being unresaonable. What I've suggested to you is not being unresaonable. Hiring babysitter just to keep your access under 40% is! Withholding your children's right to their access to dad is! I am telling you from experience. Do not set a pattern with her. If you do you will regret it and most likely by the time this all gets in front of a judge it will be status quoe. Establish your access now. I would also say to you. What stops you from not returning the children to her? Look just as the police will not take the children from her they will not take them from you. Even if you had a court ordered access if one parent doesn't hand the children over the police will do nothing unless there is a enforcement order. Or if there is.danger or threat to the children.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              06nomad,
                              Thanks for your firm push (needed that)
                              I understand what you are saying, and agree, that upto this point I have been played like a violin. As soon as I mention something to her, she's on top of it trying to change it. I have learned my lesson, and will also be only discussing matters that relate to the well being of my children with her. It wasn't until recently that she started showing this "other" side. As we were looking for an amicable settlement. And I will keep in control as to the children's 60/40 arrangements. By the way, I am the 40.

                              Comment

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