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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #1  
Old 05-23-2016, 10:36 AM
engineer engineer is offline
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Default filing a motion for support

I hope I can get a bit of help in the way of logisitics. The case is in Superior Court, Ontario.

I had a lawyer up until the SC.

SC was in Early May, the judge filled out the trial endorsement. He has included the dates for me to bring a motion of support.

My motion is due on 24 May (tomorrow).

His responding material is due 7 June.

My answer is due on 13 June.

The motion will be heard on 21 June.


I have some really stupid questions on some details but I don't want to be undone for missing something or submitting it out of order.

Looking only at my IMMEDIATE deadline (tomorrow as the due date for filing the motion) I think I have to complete and serve the following (Please let me know if I am wrong or if I have missed something):

form 14 (notice of motion) (3 copies)
form 14A (affidavit) (3 copies)
form 6B (affidavit of service)
form 13.1 (Financial Statement) (3 copies)

I will first get my 14A and FS sworn at the court, then serve the 14, 14A, and 13.1 on the OC. Finally, return to the court and file my 14, 14A, 13.1, and 6B. Update the TOC and take a copy (pic with my cell).

Is this correct?

do my exhibits fall into 14A BEFORE the last page, where it is signed and sworn, or AFTER? maybe it doesn't matter but I would hate to get this wrong.

I know I have to submit an offer to settle throughout this process, but when is that due?

My affidavit is done, I just have to gather the exhibits and print everything out and make sure everything is in order. I can see this becoming a nightmare

I will ask about the other documents needed and due dates after I pass this hurdle.

Any help would be much appreciated.
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Old 05-23-2016, 11:19 PM
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Thank you,

I am just checking (and re-checking) my affidavit. I hate proofing my own writing and I feel like I could read it a thousand times and still miss a typo. I have all my exhibits ready and I will put everything into one PDF so that I don't have to deal with piles of paper when I assemble the packages.

I can prepare the offer to settle in the morning and give it to the OC when I serve the forms and affidavit.

I would like to submit a global offer to settle rather than just an offer to settle on the specific issues of support, but I don't want to confuse the issues at hand.

Seeing as the property issues are a little more complex than what seems to be the norm, focussing on support in this motion for support is a lot easier for now.

Does anyone have any experience on this - global vs support offers to settle?

I know that the judge needs to see the offers to settle AFTER he delivers his judgement on the matter and it does not go into the continuing record.

This probably seems like an incredibly stupid question, but how do I get my offer to settle in front of the judge? Does he just ask to see it after he gives his opinion?

I dismissed my lawyer just before the SC. I got tired of all the talking and negotiating and mediating with the other side. My ex seems to think that negotiating/mediating means that I make an offer so that he can pick the bits he likes, backfill the bits he doesn't with other bits he likes and then walk away and call it an agreement. It has been exhausting, expensive, and futile. As daunting as all of the logisitcs of this are, I like that I can now speak for myself instead of through someone else, and (I hope) that means I can cut to the chase.
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Old 05-24-2016, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by engineer View Post
Thank you,

I am just checking (and re-checking) my affidavit. I hate proofing my own writing and I feel like I could read it a thousand times and still miss a typo. I have all my exhibits ready and I will put everything into one PDF so that I don't have to deal with piles of paper when I assemble the packages.

I can prepare the offer to settle in the morning and give it to the OC when I serve the forms and affidavit.

I would like to submit a global offer to settle rather than just an offer to settle on the specific issues of support, but I don't want to confuse the issues at hand.

Seeing as the property issues are a little more complex than what seems to be the norm, focussing on support in this motion for support is a lot easier for now.

Does anyone have any experience on this - global vs support offers to settle?

I know that the judge needs to see the offers to settle AFTER he delivers his judgement on the matter and it does not go into the continuing record.

This probably seems like an incredibly stupid question, but how do I get my offer to settle in front of the judge? Does he just ask to see it after he gives his opinion?

I dismissed my lawyer just before the SC. I got tired of all the talking and negotiating and mediating with the other side. My ex seems to think that negotiating/mediating means that I make an offer so that he can pick the bits he likes, backfill the bits he doesn't with other bits he likes and then walk away and call it an agreement. It has been exhausting, expensive, and futile. As daunting as all of the logisitcs of this are, I like that I can now speak for myself instead of through someone else, and (I hope) that means I can cut to the chase.
your ex is right. Negotiating means accepting what you do like, counter offers on stuff you don't and when each agree its an agreement. He doesn't have to take your offer, he can counter offer. Its all about fighting for what you want and deciding what isn't so important. You may have to rethink and figure out what issues you are willing to drop or go in his favour. Remember better to lose a few small battles and win the war.
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Old 05-24-2016, 09:11 AM
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I know that, but it is difficult to negotiate with someone who never states what they want, and state only what they don't want.

He hasn't made counter offers. He really hasn't provided anything to work with.

He has simply acted on the parts of my offers that he liked and then applied whatever else he wants to do, and what he wants to do changes without notice.

My ex is passive aggressive, dismissive, and highly avoidant. It was frustrating when we were together.

He simply doesn't provide input, at all, ever. He knows that he is in trouble here, as he cannot avoid the CSG forever. He is doing his best to put off the inevitable.

And that is why I am bringing a motion.
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Old 05-24-2016, 11:13 AM
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Offers to Settle can be severable or not.

For example, you can have:

Section A: (support stuff)
Section B: (equalization stuff)
Section C: (parenting stuff)
Section D: (family dog stuff)
Section E: (babysitting stuff)

On one hand, you can say that your offer is a take it or leave it proposition. Either the ex accepts every section or there is no deal. On the other hand, you can make the offer severable, and let the ex pick sections that he agrees with, and then fight/negotiate/litigate about the other stuff.

Judges like severable offers. Global non-severable offers rarely attract cost consequences for the other party since they usually do a bit better on at least some small part of the offer.
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Old 05-24-2016, 11:20 AM
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Now this is very useful information. Thank you!

How do I indicate this? Just say it is severable at the top and assume he will sever it by sections?

I promise you he will want to sever it by single line item.
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Old 05-24-2016, 12:43 PM
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I don't remember the precise wording I used when I made my offer.

I essentially made subtitles, and I actually did call them "Section A, Section B, etc.". I then had a paragraph saying that the other party could accept any or all of the sections, but each accepted section had to be accepted in its entirety.

Your ex can't go line by line, because you are the one doing the chunking. He can write back his own offer if he so chooses.

As OntarioDaddy said, you need to send this offer to settle now. When costs are ordered, they are in the thousands of dollars. It should take at most a day to write up, possibly a lot less. There is no way that your day job pays as much as a costs order (win or lose). Take a day off work tomorrow and get it done.
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Old 05-24-2016, 12:50 PM
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Also, the offer to settle is your negotiation. Your motion is being heard pretty soon. If he tries to negotiate line by line, just ignore him. He can't really delay any longer.

Make sure offer to settle follows the rules. Even as a self-rep you can still get costs.

After the judge rules, you will be able to show your offers to settle. If your offers to settle were better than the actual ruling, then you can be awarded costs. If your offers were not as good, then you will not get costs, or can get costs awarded against you.
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