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arguing for sole custody

Parenting Issues This forum is for discussing any of the parenting issues involved in your divorce, including parenting of step-children.

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  #31  
Old 02-20-2014, 12:51 PM
MS Mom MS Mom is offline
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I know there isn't a lot of difference between sole custody and joint custody for reasonable people, but for unreasonable people the slight differences can be very important.

I can't travel out of the country with my daughter on a vacation. I can't guarantee that I'll get the required travel consents from him.

While sole custody can be something used to "stick it to the ex" - joint custody can be used to "control" the ex and children.
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  #32  
Old 02-20-2014, 12:54 PM
DowntroddenDad DowntroddenDad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MS Mom View Post
I know there isn't a lot of difference between sole custody and joint custody for reasonable people, but for unreasonable people the slight differences can be very important.

I can't travel out of the country with my daughter on a vacation. I can't guarantee that I'll get the required travel consents from him.

While sole custody can be something used to "stick it to the ex" - joint custody can be used to "control" the ex and children.
My GF has been awarded sole custody of her kids, and she still has to get travel consents from her ex. In fact she did that this week since her kids will be going with their grandfather on a trip down south. Luckily he has been reasonable on this.
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  #33  
Old 02-20-2014, 12:55 PM
stripes stripes is offline
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I know this is somewhat off-topic, but one very good litmus test for the next boyfriend/girlfriend/partner is how s/he deals with joint custody issues relating to children from previous relationships. If I was dating someone who behaved like the MS Mom's ex or the OP's ex, I can't imagine the relationship would get anywhere.
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  #34  
Old 02-20-2014, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by engineer View Post
Wow. You have formed an opinion quickly, and in the complete absence of data. As an engineer, I generally refrain from this kind of thing.
As an engineer one would expect you to provide the data so assumptions are not made. I am relying upon a large knowledge base FYI (also known as an expert system) that analyzes patterns of speech (tone) against this forum's past contributors. I score my response based on the expert system's scoring.

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Originally Posted by engineer View Post
I am not actually looking for an opinion on my case.
Then why are you here?

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Originally Posted by engineer View Post
I have not presented my case here and have no plan to do so.
But, you have presented what you believe are "facts" to your case. This is what I responded to and applied basic "relevance" rules to them. You took offense to this.

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Originally Posted by engineer View Post
I have a lawyer for this.
Then please rely upon your lawyer. Not sure why you would post to this forum if you have a lawyer already and are not looking for any opinions and are not going to share your information so people can make informed recommendations.

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Originally Posted by engineer View Post
I interviewed a few and retained one in September, 2012. Primary parent is his term. All the lawyers I spoke with felt that joint custody was a no-go, based on the ex's frequent travels.
One thing to note... You are a high income earner and lawyers will tell you many things to make more from your emotional state.

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Originally Posted by engineer View Post
I didn't ask, this was volunteered. His infrequent communications with the kids does not help his case.
It isn't a one-two punch of evidence though. He may counter claim that the communications are thwarted by your controlling behaviours. Be very prepared for mud to fly.

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Originally Posted by engineer View Post
I am aware that custody speaks to decision making. I don't think that my ex gets it, but he has his own lawyer. I expect that they can both figure out what "are there any other individuals over the age of 18 living in your place of residence?" means.
And if they don't bother sharing the information a court isn't going to automatically throw you "sole custody" because they didn't disclose the information. If the people are not a danger to the children then the disclosure is irrelevant.


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Originally Posted by engineer View Post
We have offered to settle for the table amount, based on line 150 of his return. He has not complied. We have sent a demand letter. He has not complied.
Again, he isn't compelled to "comply" with your requests. Do you understand this? He runs the risk of having costs ordered against him but, he only needs to follow what a court orders... Not what you "feel" he should be doing.

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Originally Posted by engineer View Post
Just because I have not referenced specific data/evidence, it does not mean that I have none.
I don't disagree with this statement. But, you need to understand the rules regarding evidence. I encourage you to study the concepts behind how civil court proceedings are executed. Decisions are made on the "balance of probabilities".

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Originally Posted by engineer View Post
Again, I am not presenting my case here.
But, you indeed have. You have presented a theory to your case, why you feel you should have sole custody etc... That the father is not engaged with the children, etc...

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Originally Posted by engineer View Post
I'm not sure what I find more offensive - that you would presume that have formed a theory without data or that I lack the technical wherewithal to obtain it.
I don't know you. So for you to take any offense means to me that I have struck a nerve and there is some honesty to my response and you are now having to reflect on your current emotional state.

What I find "offensive" is you come to a public message forum not seeking advice, feedback and don't need any help... Either you are here to seek information or you are just here to rant about how awful of a parent and how the other parent cheated on you...

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Originally Posted by engineer View Post
I'm an engineer, after all. I mine and analyse data for a living, and I am very thorough.
Good for you. Then you will understand how I am developing an expert system that can actively compare your posting to previous content, cross reference it against a tone meter and score your messages.

You will also understand when I tell you that this expert system has a data store of over 2.3 terrabytes of information folded in from over 1,200 sources driving the decision logic.

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Originally Posted by engineer View Post
I have literally thousands of individual documents that relate to where he was when, who he was with, and how much he spent.
And, you think that in a family court a justice is going to allow you to enter 1000s of documents into the trial record? You need to understand the concept of relevance. Having data doesn't produce results. Honestly, you can collect all the "evidence" you want but, most of it is irrelevant.

I have never seen a family law file with 1000s of documents in the record... I have seen one that weighs over 20kg when printed and it still doesn't have 1000s of documents.

Don't dwell on evidence... It has to be cogent and relevant to matter. Most lawyers struggle with relevance let alone a litigant.

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Originally Posted by engineer View Post
It is amazing what you can find with a relatively small amount of effort. I have a dozen bits of information from the two weeks I brought the kids to visit him alone.
This sounds obsessive to me. The bits of information are probably irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by engineer View Post
I started looking for data after I went through the accounts, after I learned about the loan he had from his employer, and after he paid his foreign taxes out of our joint account.
All prior to the seperation so you won't see any of it back. Your lawyer should have explained this to you. Also, the lawyer should have explained that you should close all joint accounts as of yesterday.

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Originally Posted by engineer View Post
The money was loaned by his employer to pay foreign taxes - he would give them the tax refund that sprung from the foreign tax credit - I was unaware of this loan.
BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT A PARTY TO THE LOAN AND NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR IT. NOR WILL YOU EVER BE. Stop obsessing over financials that are not yours or jointly held. That loan is between the two parties and is IRRELEVANT to your matter. It is not a joint debt.

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Originally Posted by engineer View Post
He spent it instead. He then used joint credit to pay the taxes in the months before we separated, when I was unaware of the impending split.
Again, before the Date of Separation. Not much you can do about it. Unless it is over 150,000 I don't recommend wasting your time to recover it. Penny wise... Pound foolish.

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Originally Posted by engineer View Post
When he received his tax refunds months later - after the split - he gave them to his employer to repay his loan to them. That means we paid his foreign taxes. He turned a personal debt to a joint one when I was unaware of the loan in the first place. That makes his use of company funds overseas, on purposes unintended, very relevant, and it makes his extra-relationship affair relevant.
No it does not. You clearly need a better lawyer.

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Originally Posted by engineer View Post
And yes, she is a spa worker. No kidding. I think it is funny. Not sure whether we will go misappropriation or reckless depletion. The misappropriation route is certainly a lot less sordid.
Good luck with that one. It will take you well over 50,000 in legals to get to trial and your success will be crappy if you go in throwing around the word affair.

You clearly need a lot of help but, you need to really understand this:

http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f...-mossip-13753/

Quote:
What is sad for the Court is the amount of time, money, energy, and emotional angst, that these parties have engaged in to convince themselves, the other party, the children, their friends, the professionals involved, and now the Court, that their truth is the “real truth”; that their version of events is what actually happened.
I would read that main thread and the case law attached to it... It could save you a lot of heart ache and money.

Good Luck!
Tayken
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  #35  
Old 02-20-2014, 01:27 PM
MS Mom MS Mom is offline
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Originally Posted by DowntroddenDad View Post
My GF has been awarded sole custody of her kids, and she still has to get travel consents from her ex. In fact she did that this week since her kids will be going with their grandfather on a trip down south. Luckily he has been reasonable on this.
That's what must be in her agreement, it won't be in my next one. Nor will the clause that prevents me from moving outside of the city. Pretty moot point now since he moved out of the country, but I wouldn't put it past him to attempt contempt motions if I did move now.

In a previous motion I asked for sole custody and my lawyer suggested I give that pursuit up as the ex has the financial backing of his parents for his lawyer, I was on my own. She said I couldn't afford the sole custody fight. So, I gave it up. Turns out I couldn't afford to not give it up either.

Joint custody has tied my hands much more than people expected it to, which is why I've brought another motion.

My situation isn't an easy one and I caution the statement that in the end, joint custody and sole custody aren't really that different, because they are. I can't even put my child in counseling until she's 12 without his consent.
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  #36  
Old 02-20-2014, 05:19 PM
engineer engineer is offline
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Tayken,

I have 1000's of pieces of data by accident, not design. It is just what the data recovery systems spat out, and had I even imagined I would get this volume, I would have fine-tuned the filters. I was tripping over stuff long after I stopped looking. I don't want to use all of it - that is way too costly and I expect it would annoy the court more than anything else. It would annoy me.

I was only asking what sorts of things would be best re: custody, so I could pick out the top two or three pieces. I don't think this was such an unreasonable question to post. I didn't go into every detail of my situation or even the most important ones because that was not what the question was about.

I have seen both sides of these custody debates in action - the sole custodian that messes with an ex that genuinely wants to be part of the child's life and the non-custodial joint parent that isn't involved but likes to call the shots. I'm afraid I am with Arabian on this - these situations seem to boil down to money in the end, at least when one parent is using their part of the custody agreement as a prise to either get more or pay less.

But in my situation, I don't see custody as a big issue going forward - sole would be easier for me and the kids but joint isn't impossible. My ex always liked to stir things up through inaction, but the trigger for this was usually something completely unrelated. I learned to choose my timing when his input was necessary. Now that I think about it, he could very easily be asking for joint hoping I will focus on custody and not the financials.

Bottom line - unless my ex is an unmitigated disaster of a human being - there is no evidence I can produce that would yield sole custody. This forum has been very instructive for me - I can see the potential for an expensive and emotional debate that I won't win.
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  #37  
Old 02-20-2014, 05:22 PM
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Why don't you provide an offer to settle that states joint custody but if a decision can't be made you have final say. I personally don't like these agreements but if the other parent only wants the Joint title so they don't look like a deadbeat they may accept the offer and in the end it pretty much gives you sole anyway.
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