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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #21  
Old 08-20-2020, 05:40 PM
rockscan rockscan is offline
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It is frustrating and know that there are dads out there who follow the agreement and pay what they owe and have ex wives who insist they owe more. If my husbands ex had just shut her mouth and accepted what he paid she would be up $2000 plus the $3000 she had to pay for his legal fees and what I estimate as $5000 for her legal fees. She too felt my husband was trying to screw her despite us providing piles of documents and her providing nothing (not even copies of tuition receipts or OSAP awards).

If it really isnt that much of a difference and his cs would go down, why not just calculate what he would owe for the school expenses and consider it a wash? If his cs payments will go down $2000 a year and he owes you $3000 for school is it really worth you wasting the time and energy? If you took it to court the judge would expect a reasonable contribution from the child (and his lawyer would insist on it) which would not be in accordance with what is in your agreement. Despite it being that way, kids have to contribute its just how much that works out to that will be disputed.
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  #22  
Old 08-20-2020, 05:54 PM
Tired_of_court Tired_of_court is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockscan View Post
It is frustrating and know that there are dads out there who follow the agreement and pay what they owe and have ex wives who insist they owe more. If my husbands ex had just shut her mouth and accepted what he paid she would be up $2000 plus the $3000 she had to pay for his legal fees and what I estimate as $5000 for her legal fees. She too felt my husband was trying to screw her despite us providing piles of documents and her providing nothing (not even copies of tuition receipts or OSAP awards).

If it really isnt that much of a difference and his cs would go down, why not just calculate what he would owe for the school expenses and consider it a wash? If his cs payments will go down $2000 a year and he owes you $3000 for school is it really worth you wasting the time and energy? If you took it to court the judge would expect a reasonable contribution from the child (and his lawyer would insist on it) which would not be in accordance with what is in your agreement. Despite it being that way, kids have to contribute its just how much that works out to that will be disputed.
I know people are sly, I get that, I just haven't been. He has the receipt from school, he has the OSAP information, he has my income information, he has everything he needs to just say okay.

According to my calcs, cs would go down only $500 in total for the entire year. His share of tuition is around $1500 a semester, so $3000 after scholarships, etc are accounted for. So, this year the negative would be $2500. I'm not bothering with books, or any incidentals, it doesn't seem worth the effort. Just tuition. This year I can cover it, but considering everything that has happened in 2020 so far, I'm not counting on anything anymore.
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  #23  
Old 08-20-2020, 06:00 PM
rockscan rockscan is offline
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If you are taking it to court then throw everything you can in. Tuition, books, materials, transportation etc.

Consider this as your last kick at the can and ask for everything to be set.
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  #24  
Old 08-20-2020, 06:11 PM
Tired_of_court Tired_of_court is offline
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I will. That's generally what I've done in the past.

I'll give him the opportunity to save some money, like this time, I'll forget about income increase, I'll recognize the annual over payment in the first semester tuition, I knocked off 5% of his share of the expenses, and asked for nothing for books, materials or anything over and above just the tuition amount.

And then he needs to control the situation and says no and ignores it altogether. Then I have him served, in the US, and do the court thing with him sending in the lawyer that has always represented him, but is never representing him when it's time to serve documents. Last time it took over 18 months to settle it due to non-disclosure and delays on his part. It feels abusive and I can't help but think that all the laws and rules that are in place, something isn't there to prevent this awful use of court time.
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  #25  
Old 08-20-2020, 07:42 PM
seeker101 seeker101 is offline
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I will just add my 2 cents on dealing with US income.

I highly recommend you should use the Bank of Canada annual average exchange rate instead of the Dec 31st value. This smoothes out the volatility in a given year.

Since cad has fallen against usd recently, his income (when converted to cad) should be more. For example, 2018 rate was 1.2957, 2019 was 1.3269 and how 2020 is going, it is likely it will be even higher this year.

And of course, once USD income is converted to CAD, all CS/s7 calculations should be done in Cdn dollars.

For the sake of stability/predictability, another suggestion is you guys could agree to a fixed exchange rate for the next 4 years i.e. can agree to a number around 5-year average rate.



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  #26  
Old 08-20-2020, 09:53 PM
Tired_of_court Tired_of_court is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seeker101 View Post
I will just add my 2 cents on dealing with US income.

I highly recommend you should use the Bank of Canada annual average exchange rate instead of the Dec 31st value. This smoothes out the volatility in a given year.

Since cad has fallen against usd recently, his income (when converted to cad) should be more. For example, 2018 rate was 1.2957, 2019 was 1.3269 and how 2020 is going, it is likely it will be even higher this year.

And of course, once USD income is converted to CAD, all CS/s7 calculations should be done in Cdn dollars.

For the sake of stability/predictability, another suggestion is you guys could agree to a fixed exchange rate for the next 4 years i.e. can agree to a number around 5-year average rate.



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Thank you for your input. I agree, I could have fought for a different exchange rate calculation back then, but I was also dealing with custody issues that felt more important. I decided early on to agree with everything reasonable they put forward financially to, once again, show the court that I wasn't really financially motivated due to the scrutiny put on me.

The last time I requested a decrease in a court ordered S7 expense because the child was now coaching in the activity and the costs were nill as a result. She was working her way through it all, which I respected and encouraged.

I was also asking for an increase in child support, but only because income and exchange rates went up. So, while he owed me money the resulting court order was for less than the one it was replacing. And I couldn't get him to agree on that. He actually hired a lawyer to work this out in court, which is just incredible to me.

I've been self-represented for the majority of the court time, so I expected that I would make some errors along the way that might cost me a little bit, but at least I didn't have a huge legal bill to deal with nonsense.

I wish I could work something out with him, but he's just completely unwilling. I received a long response containing two paragraphs about his wife being sick and he didn't even bother to ask how our daughter was and it was her birthday the following day. He just doesn't care.
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  #27  
Old 08-20-2020, 10:40 PM
seeker101 seeker101 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tired_of_court View Post

I was also asking for an increase in child support, but only because income and exchange rates went up. So, while he owed me money the resulting court order was for less than the one it was replacing. And I couldn't get him to agree on that. He actually hired a lawyer to work this out in court, which is just incredible to me.
I didn't understand your above statement, it seems contradictory. If both income (assuming in usd) and exchange rate went up, then net result should be that income in cad (upon which CS should be based) went up even more.

How can resulting court order be less than existing one? Unless you agreed to something on consent?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tired_of_court View Post

I've been self-represented for the majority of the court time, so I expected that I would make some errors along the way that might cost me a little bit, but at least I didn't have a huge legal bill to deal with nonsense.
I've self repping and feel that opposing counsel think self reps are easy targets and try to intimidate using fancy legal jargon, threats or warnings to get you to settle. But remember, they are protecting their client's interests, not yours. And if you felt pressured into accepting a settlement, they will later claim well, you agreed to it. So one needs to tread carefully, fully research and understand the law and preferably seek legal advice.

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  #28  
Old 08-20-2020, 10:41 PM
rockscan rockscan is offline
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He caresabout his money.

There are plenty of parents who move on and dont look back. The sad part is they will realize their mistakes years from now and will have nothing as their kids turn their backs on them the same way.

Remember you are raising a good person who depends on you. Your ex is simply a selfish asshole.
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  #29  
Old 08-20-2020, 10:54 PM
Tired_of_court Tired_of_court is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seeker101 View Post
I didn't understand your above statement, it seems contradictory. If both income (assuming in usd) and exchange rate went up, then net result should be that income in cad (upon which CS should be based) went up even more.

How can resulting court order be less than existing one? Unless you agreed to something on consent?



I've self repping and feel that opposing counsel think self reps are easy targets and try to intimidate using fancy legal jargon, threats or warnings to get you to settle. But remember, they are protecting their client's interests, not yours. And if you felt pressured into accepting a settlement, they will later claim well, you agreed to it. So one needs to tread carefully, fully research and understand the law and preferably seek legal advice.

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I know it sounds confusing, but the order was guideline child support + $250 in S7 expenses. It was replaced with guideline child support only.

Yes, that support went up due to income change and exchange rate, but there was no order for anything above guideline. His court ordered monthly obligation was going down, not up.
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  #30  
Old 08-20-2020, 11:02 PM
Tired_of_court Tired_of_court is offline
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His lawyer has tried his best to intimidate me since the beginning. He used all his fancy legal jargon with the exchange rate battle and I just went along with what the judge determined reasonable. I really didn't care that much. The custody discussion was more important and he showed his true colours during that discussion, so I felt the judge would be fair and she was.

He really puts on a show like there's a lot at stake, but there is nothing extraordinary about our agreement, the court orders, our incomes. What's extraordinary is his need to battle because it just costs him more in the end. If I file the motion to get what he's supposed to pay, then it's going to be for everything he's supposed to pay. If he just cooperated now, he'd pay less.
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