Help and caselaw on section 7?

[annapurna66]

Does anyone know of any good case law on section 7? Specifically a case where the judge uses the Child support guidelines below and applies them to the case? I'm wondering what happens if the spouse requesting the section 7 amount is the spouse paying child support?...does the wording of "reasonably cover?" still apply. (for example....spouse who pays child support is large income earner and signs kids up for $$$ activities without other parents consent...now payor spouse seeks reimbursement for same. Spouse receiving child support is small income earner and states inability to pay. Is payor spouses income taken into account?.. meaning, payor spouse should not get reimbursement as high income would more than pay for expense?)

Definition of “extraordinary expenses”(1.1) For the purposes of paragraphs (1)(d) and (f), the term <dfn>“extraordinary expenses”</dfn> means

• (a) expenses that exceed those that the spouse requesting an amount for the extraordinary expenses can reasonably cover, taking into account that spouse’s income and the amount that the spouse would receive under the applicable table or, where the court has determined that the table amount is inappropriate, the amount that the court has otherwise determined is appropriate; or

[blinkandimgone]

The same guidelines apply whether it is the payor or recipient parent. Consent required prior to, receipts provided, split proportionate to income.

No consent? Too bad.

[annapurna66]

Awesome...thank you Blink! Anyone know of case law that illustrates the above example? I can only find cases with support recipient requesting section 7.

[rockscan]

There arent many because section 7 expenses have to be agreed to. Your best bet is to search the wording "agreed to in writing" "consent" or whatever the exact wording is in the guidelines (not in front of me). Ex's cant just sign kids up for everything they want and then demand payment. It doesnt work that way.

What is your ex saying/doing that you need the case law? If youre trying to respond definitely look at your order and the guidelines and draft a response akin to "our agreement clearly states you must seek written consent prior to enrollment which you have not done. Perhaps we could discuss next (season/year/term/month)'s expenses prior to registering to avoid this issue in the future." Dont say anything about affording it etc. stick to what is in your agreement. No ask no agree no pay.

[annapurna66]

Thanks Rockscan. Did try that approach...ex said too bad so sad I think you have to pay. We are now scheduled for trial. Didn't see the "consent" part in the Guidelines but will look again. Maybe "no ask no agree no pay" will be my opening trial statement. Whole thing is stupid...but I got bullied last time I was in court with ex over different issue and crumbled...so now he thinks he can bully me into agreeing to something unfair again. Lesson learned...stand your ground the first time.

[Karver]

My ex and I are coming up on our 3rd year of separation. We have been following our signed-by-lawyers separation agreement, that my ex himself wrote.
In this agreement, ex put in clause that he would pay all extraordinary expenses, which he has been doing all this time. In exchange I've been taking a set CS amount, which is pretty lean given his income, but I signed the agreement, so I've been following it.
The ex signs the kids up for all kinds of sports, including expensive ski racing, without asking. So what I get for being a push over:
May 1- I get a letter from his lawyer stating I will no longer be receiving support cheques as I owe my ex $20,000 in section 7. Wow, news to me. I've never received a receipt or request for any money owed. How they even came up with that number, is beyond me, as CS has just been this set amount. Not to mention that 2.8 year old signed contract we've been following. That contact also has the support payments outlined- showing amounts to be paid each month from sept 2012-sept 2016. I'll keep you posted how this unfolds.
I'm self represented.

[annapurna66]

Holy doodles Karver...that's insane! I am also self rep. I have learnt that it doesn't always pay to be reasonable and follow the law...and that being a pushover literally means you get pushed to the ground. Please let me know how things unfold for you. I am on the trial list now so will let you know also of anything that I learn that may be helpful for section 7. Did you come across any good case law?

[Karver]

I haven't been looking for case law, I'm going to use our signed contracts and hope the fact that completely cutting off support (CS & SS) of his own decision will look wrong to a judge.... I'm going to work on this all weekend as I'm kidless.

[rockscan]

Can you talk to duty counsel as well before trial?

I think you might be over thinking it which is why you are getting railroaded. Stick to the fact. The fact is you have an agreement that he gets your permission. The fact is the guidelines say extra-ordinary and they arent. The fact is his income is higher. If you need to search through canlii, look for the types of activities he has enrolled them in and see what you get. Also what judges say is extraordinary.

Dont think that because he got away with it before that he will again. He could end up with a big bill.

Would it be worth it to you for an hour with a lawyer?

[Karver]

And I'm going to request MEP be set up as soon as possible. Every month is a battle of frustration trying to get these support cheques. needless to say, they are always a week or two late. I shoulda got MEP involved a long time ago.

[annapurna66]

Rockscan....thanks for that...its awesome advice. Yes, I am likely over thinking it....which is muddying the waters...which will be confusing for trial. I just filed my materials and ex has no Book of evidence etc....so he is obviously under-thinking or thinking nothing! I guess I just want to be prepared. Last litigation went so horribly...hard to have faith in the legal system. Will talk to duty counsel before trial. As for hiring a lawyer, I spent two years salary in legal fees for my last 3 year litigation...I swore to never hire a lawyer again. Duty counsel will have to be enough for now.

Karver...get MEP!...do not delay. The equivalent of FRO here saved me from having to sell my house. Im not sure how it works in Alberta but FRO took a very long time to get established here...like 8 months! start the process now...you won't regret it...otherwise you have no control over when (or in my case if) you will get paid.

[Karver]

Read my recent post regarding "Children as shareholders, can they sue?"
He's doing the same thing there. Deciding to break contracts and keep all the money for himself. It's all blackmail tactics.