Explaining the end of C.S.

[lets_be_fair]

Hi, my order states the following: My question is does (A) change the C.S. order other than funding my daughters for their education and housing if they move from their mothers home? Mother gets 4 days more per month than I do and I still pay full C.S.

2.2 Child support ends for each child when:

(a) the child no longer resides with the custodial parent,
Does this include moving away to attend college/university?

(c) the child turns 18, unless he or she is unable to become self-supporting due to illness, disability, education or other cause,

(d) the child becomes self-supporting,

(e) the child obtains one post-secondary degree or diploma,

(f) the child turns 23 years of age,

(g) the child marries,

(h) the child dies, or

(i) a party dies, provided that the security in the section of this Agreement entitled "Life Insurance" is in place at the time of death.

[Rioe]

Hi, my order states the following: My question is does (A) change the C.S. order other than funding my daughters for their education and housing if they move from their mothers home? Mother gets 4 days more per month than I do and I still pay full C.S.

2.2 Child support ends for each child when:

(a) the child no longer resides with the custodial parent,
Does this include moving away to attend college/university?

(c) the child turns 18, unless he or she is unable to become self-supporting due to illness, disability, education or other cause,

(d) the child becomes self-supporting,

(e) the child obtains one post-secondary degree or diploma,

(f) the child turns 23 years of age,

(g) the child marries,

(h) the child dies, or

(i) a party dies, provided that the security in the section of this Agreement entitled "Life Insurance" is in place at the time of death.

First of all, why do you pay full table when you have more than 40% access? You should be using an offset system. The rest of the answer wouldn't be as painful if your CS system was fair to begin with.

Secondly, yes, CS continues even while the child is away at university. The justification is that the parent must maintain the house for when the child comes back for weekends, holidays and summertime, the child still needs clothes, etc. However, it is possible to negotiate a reduction in CS during the school months if your section 7 expenses include the cost of residence and a food plan, or a rental place and groceries, etc.

[stripes]

If the child has moved away to attend university, I would think that 2.2.c ("the child is unable to become self-supporting due to illness, disability, education or other cause") would be relevant. If the child is in full-time university pursuing a first degree, s/he is still a "child of the marriage" and CS still applies.

[FightingForFamily]

Sometimes its a good opportunity to negotiate sending some of the CS to the child directly. I realize the CP also needs money to continue covering the rent and such, but you may be able to change the arrangement so the child benefits directly from the support.

When I went to University, my Dad paid me the CS instead, and I chose where I wanted to live. I did choose to stay at home, and paid my Mom "rent" out of the CS money. The remainder of the CS money I used to pay for my bus pass and books for the semester. My brother took his CS and chose to live somewhere else with room mates.

[Berner_Faith]

This is just one aspect of family law, I have a hard time wrapping my head around...

When children are away at college/university and living on campus or close to campus with friends, they don't always come home on weekends and when they do, most (at least the ones I knew in college) would go one weekend to Mom's and one weekend to Dad's, Christmas/summer breaks were much of the same, they spent their time divided between the two houses, yet often full table CS is still paid, plus both parents have to pay for their share of schooling costs, which includes campus board or rent elsewhere.

Essentially the one who is paying full CS is paying for sheltering costs twice and now the one who receives CS has less household expenses because the child is spending more time at college and then splitting their time between the two homes.

The whole "maintaining a house for the children" argument I personally feel is weak and other's (and obviously the law) doesn't agree, however how many people, single or not, sell their house immediately after their children move out for good? Very few in my opinion. Yes there are some that have to sell because CS was such a huge part of their income and they lose that eventually but I think the majority of people go on affording the same house, even when CS is not payable.

I think when a child goes away to school CS should be reduced to take into consideration the reduced household expenses or at least have it directed to the child like Fighting mentioned above. Unfortunately my opinion means very little in the family law world.

[rockscan]

Explaining the end of C.S.

My partners lawyer said no to maintenance cs while kid is away. He said the cs receiver had to argue why they deserve it and its at the discretion of the judge. But each case is different and it could be he says that to my partner because his ex makes significantly more than my partner and chose to stay in the (expensive) matrimonial home. "You are not responsible for your ex refusing to live within her means."

And when I asked him about the argument of maintaining a home to come back to he said every case is unique in all aspects but for this case, she has shown she can afford the house she lives in and has an income that supported the family through the marriage.

Residence fees are about $10,000 per year. Thats 1250 per month. Dads portion is 26% at $325. His monthly average cs is $120 less than full because of school. So technically hes paying more than table amount per month. (And yes the average includes full table cs for the months not in school.)

**disclaimer! Not legal advice. Just our situation. Dont take this as gospel! Talk to your own lawyer!**

[Tayken]

Hi All,

Some case law to consider:

Prospective table child support

[234] The parties agree that a simple set-off is the appropriate arrangement for table support. On the basis of Craig earning $850,000 and Vicki $220,000 Craig owes Vicki $6,433 monthly support for Natalie and Vicki owes Craig $2,810 monthly support for Katie and Sean, for a net setoff of $3,633 commencing April 1, 2014, and continuing until August 31, 2014.

[235] Since Katie will be attending university in September, and plans to study away from home, commencing September 1, 2014 Craig owes Vicki $6,433 monthly support for Natalie and Vicki owes Craig $1,781 monthly support for Sean, for a net setoff of $4,662 for the months of September through April 2014 and for each year following, while Katie is in full time attendance at university and living away from home.

[236] If Katie returns to her father’s home in the summers, the setoff amount will revert to $3,633 for the months of May to August inclusive, while she is living at home.

CanLII - 2014 ONSC 2272 (CanLII)

Child support for children in university isn't cut-and-dry as many assume it is.

Good Luck!
Tayken

[Tayken]

My partners lawyer said no to maintenance cs while kid is away. He said the cs receiver had to argue why they deserve it and its at the discretion of the judge.

Good advice from the lawyer. (See my case law above which demonstrates this.)

Many people assume that child support continues when a "child of the marriage" goes off to college / university. Rockscan is absolutely correct in pointing out that it isn't always the case the CS continues.

[Tayken]

Sometimes its a good opportunity to negotiate sending some of the CS to the child directly. I realize the CP also needs money to continue covering the rent and such, but you may be able to change the arrangement so the child benefits directly from the support.

I am of the opinion that support should always be paid directly to any "child of the marriage" directly as soon as they are 18. I see no reason for parents to pay each other at this point in time unless the child is unable to manage the situation. (medical reason, developmental reason, addiction, etc...)

I am not seeing many judges order C/S when children choose to live out of the house. But, don't think that you won't end up paying something. It usually means that the costs of lodging etc are put into the S7 expense that comes along with post secondary education and training.

The only difference is it is split on the proportion of parent and student's income which is better than paying CS and the child's lodging. (Which is the double down BF identifies that often happens.)

Good Luck!
Tayken

[MrToronto]

The rountine based on no existing Order or Seperation Agreement for a adult child living away.

5 months C.S for summer holidays, march break, Xmas e.tc

7 months no C.S (can't support two households) and an agreement on the sharing of school/living away costs must be made. between 3 parties.

The 5 months C.S is typically added up and divded by 12 months

it must be determined by parties who will remit post secondary tax claims (higher income is best)

[rockscan]

The 5 months C.S is typically added up and divded by 12 months )

Partners lawyer did this in a divorcemate calculation. 12 for one, 4 for two. Averaged it out for 12 months. That way, if mom got a new court order for FRO, they could recover the proper amount.

[Epona]

Child Support continues while child lives elsewhere for college/university.

[Mother]

LBF, I compared your conditions of child support termination with ours. Ours read as:

Child support ends when:
a. Xxxxx no longer resides with the custodial parent ("resides" includes the child living away from home for school, summer employment or vacation);
b. The child turns 18 years old, unless the child is unable to become self-supporting due to illness, disability, education or other cause;
c. The child becomes self-supporting;
d. The child obtains one post-secondary degree or diploma;
e. The child attains 22 years of age;
f. The child marries; or
g. The child dies.

Child support shall be reviewed once Xxxxx lives away from home for the purpose of post-secondary education in order to take into account the reduced costs.

Why the heck these conditions are different? Shy age is different (22)? I thought these should be the standard conditions for almost every one. No? Yes? May be?

Also living away for vacation? So every time child goes away for vacation CS can be reviewed? This doesn't make sense or may be I am missing something???

[rockscan]

Probably means a time period longer than a month. Im surprised its broken down like that. Although, my patners lawyer said his agreement was poorly written so maybe that language is standard?

[Mother]

Probably means a time period longer than a month. Im surprised its broken down like that. Although, my patners lawyer said his agreement was poorly written so maybe that language is standard?

If it was poorly written, why then your partner's lawyer did not rewrite it the right way?

I still cannot understand this age 18 and 22. So when CS ends, at 18 or 22?