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Parent wanting to dismiss court case re: CS an S7

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Lemongirl View Post
    Net worth difference from marriage to separation:
    ME increase in net worth: (97,500)
    EX increase in net worth: 117,500
    Average of ME/EX increase in net worth: 10,000
    Okay, yes, that works better, with knowing the actual house value and mortgage amounts.

    So with an increase of net worth of $10k each, you should end with a net worth of $210k, which is nearly all contained in your house, and he should end with a net worth of ($5k). Theoretically, to make that work out properly, he should have owed you $5k in equalization, but the system does funny things with negative numbers.

    Anyways, the point is that he came into the marriage with debt, and he left with $15k in cash. He has nothing to complain about, and certainly didn't give up a single cent that would require a reduction in CS to make it feel fairer.

    Tell him you won't reopen equalization if he signs to have CS and s7 handled normally from now on.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Lemongirl View Post
      Do you actually order CS and S7 at a CC or do you usually wait until the Settlement Conference?


      A case conference can be a settlement conference if you both can agree. More than likely your ex will come in with an attitude of “i gave up thousands I owe her nothing” and the judge will order an update to cs with you both having to go back and figure out arrears and daycare. The next one would be settlement where the judge attempts to get you to settle. Ccs can have a cs order made but the rest is on agreement. The judge will probably advise your ex that it doesn’t matter what he agreed to, you cant negotiate cs away and you have been asking for disclosure.

      You will have a better idea after the cc how your ex is going to play going forward. Don’t worry so much about his lawyer. They do what he tells them and if being obstinate will make them more money, they will play along. Worry more about the direction the judge is going in. Your case sounds reasonable and you aren’t asking for more than you are entitled to.

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      • #18
        Thanks for the advice and your opinion everyone. I will keep you posted as to how this pans out.

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        • #19
          As my partner and I have learned, keeping a level head when faced with an unreasonable person is difficult. Just remember what you are willing to settle for and what the law is and you will be ok!

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          • #20
            Just wanted to give an update on how the Case Conference went yesterday. Rockscan, you are correct, my ex came in basically saying he gave up thousands and owes me nothing, and is actually asking for credit to go against the $100k he apparently gave me if CS and S7 arrears are being considered/awarded. The judge really didn't have much to say except that the biggest issue he sees is the childcare costs that I have been paying 100% of (his comment is to my advantage). He said the agreement is clear that the house down payment is documented that it was mine to begin with, but said there is another part of the agreement that could be interpreted to my ex's advantage or mine so that could be a potential risk for me or my ex. The judge gave no opinion on how he thinks a judge would actually rule. He suggests that we try and settle this without going to trial and booked a Settlement Conference for May. During the CC i provided the OC with a recalculation of S7, CS and arrears for both based on our actual incomes over the last three years which will be referenced in my SC brief.

            After the CC, my ex and his lawyer basically told me that they are not opening up recalculating equalization and questioning it, but rather challenging the agreement in terms of how it was worded with regards to my down payment. My ex also then questioned S7 expenses that have previously gone through FRO I submitted for hockey - saying that because he didn't approve our son to play hockey for the last 3 years that he should be reimbursed for the 40% FRO collected. While our agreement does say that we are to agree on S7 costs, it's difficult to do that when the other parent won't actually step up and co-parent in terms of exercising access, won't go to any extra-curricular activities, or participate in anything else that parents do on a regular and ongoing basis. I admit i should have tried harder to get permission for our son to play hockey, but he loves playing and I worried his father would say no which would be a huge let down for him. I do not put through the smaller activities through FRO, however hockey is a more expensive sport and is difficult for me to pay without his contribution. I do not have my son in rep, only house league. Next steps, I'm hiring a lawyer to help provide me with some guidance, their opinion and to help me draft my SC brief. It's possible I may need him/her at the SC conference as well because i must admit, it's emotionally stressful speaking in front of a judge on your own when the other person has a lawyer to speak for them. Wish i didn't have to go that route, but it is what it is.

            Comment


            • #21
              Im surprised the judge didn’t order an update to cs!

              Yes your ex is trying to threaten you to get you to back down. In reality, there are a few cases where judges have ordered hockey paid for. What I gather is you didn’t get his permission or he didn’t respond? Do you have a clause that says permission will not be unreasonably withheld? It could go both ways really. You were wrong for not getting a yes and he was wrong for not agreeing. He also could have rejected the costs through FRO.

              Could you offset the cost of daycare against the cost of hockey? For instance say you wont go after daycare arrears because he paid hockey?

              I think the judge probably went that way because this case could be settled easily if you both can meet in the middle. I would look at your numbers again. Make him an offer before the next meeting.

              I love the challenge the agreement bs. If he had independent legal advice for the agreement then he will have difficulty challenging the terms. Added to that, if the terms are in line with the law on s7 he can’t get around it. Thats where I say they are trying to scare you. All of the language they said was intimidation. Take a deep breath and know you did good today.

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              • #22
                You would think if he didnt want to pay his portion of the Hockey, he would have done so 3 years ago.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by kate331 View Post
                  You would think if he didnt want to pay his portion of the Hockey, he would have done so 3 years ago.
                  Hockey is neither special nor an extraordinary expense unless both parents make so much money that it doesn't have any financial impact on the family.

                  A very small % of children participate in hockey these days due to the cost. So it is very likely a judge will deem the expense to not qualify for S7.

                  Hockey is not a RIGHT of a child. Its one of the most expensive extracurricular activities you can put a child in. It is for the 1-5% of the population that can afford it.

                  So if you both make under 50k don't expect a judge to ever order it as an S.7.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    I too am surprised that CS wasn't updated, however the courthouse was the busiest I've ever seen it so perhaps the judge was just getting through cases as quickly as possible. As for the hockey, I could care less. If it's that important to his father that he not contribute toward the cost, then I will figure out a way to make it happen on my end so our S7 can play. Why hockey seems to be an issue now for him and hasn't been brought up once over the last 3 years is beyond me. I've sent him the schedules and he's never argued about paying it when FRO advised him. Regardless, this is a minor issue in my opinion. The scare tactics and intimidation will be dealt with as I'm going to retain my lawyer that drafted the agreement, this way she can interpret herself the meaning of anything that is being questioned. It's exhausting going through this, so perhaps having legal support will help the ease of the process. Will definitely send an offer to settle as I'm totally willing to be flexible. I always remind myself that a good agreement is one where neither party is happy with it.

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                    • #25
                      Its a flimsy excuse to pull out the agreement like that. Thats why they said get independent legal advice. If you had that, he agreed to it and the matter is closed. Its simply a scare tactic to make you fold. “Oh shoot Im going to have to pay him 100 grand? Then I will skip cs arrears!”

                      That would be like my partner trying to renegotiate equalization as the house they lived in worth triple what it was assessed at their divorce. Not a chance.

                      Hockey is the only grey area and you can offer to put that against your day care expenses but cs needs to be updated period.

                      Will be interesting to see what your lawyer says.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        It's been a while and thought I would give an update on where things are currently at. Well, we had our SC and the judge provided their opinion of how they think this will turn out if it goes to trial. Here is what the judge said in a nutshell:
                        -Child support is the right of the child
                        -Childcare is considered S7
                        -The separation agreement does not outline anywhere that his portion of the house was dollar for dollar in exchange for support, therefore no claim can be made toward it.
                        -In addition the agreement states he was giving me his portion because it was mine to begin with prior to marriage - therefore not his to claim as a credit toward CS.
                        -As I have proof in writing requesting updated income for the last 3 years ,the arrears come into play as being owed.
                        -Judge warned the ex that he is putting himself at risk if he continues to push this to trial.
                        -Judge advised that my calculations were all very reasonable except that I should be deducting the income tax benefit I would receive on the daycare before splitting it proportionately (I didn't know this).

                        The judge scheduled a TBST (To be spoken to) for mid July so that it would give us some time to try and settle (SC was mid May) based on feedback received. Near the tail end of May i sent an official Offer to Settle to my ex's lawyer to which no response was ever received. The offer was for last 3 years child support arrears, S7 daycare for 2018 only and updated child support based on guidelines. I wiped about $6000 in daycare from 2015-2017 that would have been his portion.

                        The TBST in July was postponed by my lawyer (yes, i've now had to hire a lawyer) so that it showed good faith that I would like to continue to try and settle. Numerous follow ups were sent with zero response until the day before the September TBST. They replied to my offer to settle (unofficially through email) basically saying he can't afford to pay any arrears plus daycare on top of that. They offered a flat monthly payment of $750 that is to include child support and S7. I declined the offer as I felt that having a flat monthly S7 fee could put me at risk for major health items and education down the road. As well the flat fee didn't cover the proper portion of childcare. Needless to say we attended the TBST the next day (me, my lawyer, and his lawyer-he didn't attend) and a trial date was confirmed for November. Lots of paperwork to fill out now including copies of all S7 receipts going back three years and proof of requesting tax information every year. I have everything organized in a folder and put a spreadsheet together that keeps the calculations clean and easy to understand. My lawyer is drafting up the factum for me as I was advised those are quite difficult to write unless you know the laws. So now the offer is off the table and I was told to ask for everything based on my original request. Apparently if the judge makes a ruling that's in my favour and is worse off than my offer to settle for the ex, then I could be awarded costs.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Wow this is moving along. I think your ex is nuts. He is going to have to pay all of it...




                          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Lemongirl View Post
                            They offered a flat monthly payment of $750 that is to include child support and S7. I declined the offer as I felt that having a flat monthly S7 fee could put me at risk for major health items and education down the road.

                            I'm not sure how much CS is without the S7 component, so it is unclear how generous that $750 is. That said, the offer has some value, in that a fixed amount can be collected by maintenance enforcement agencies. I would word it as (eg.) "$600 for table CS, and $150 for S7 expenses" or whatever the actual split really is.


                            Maybe agree to the $750, with a "balancing" to be done at the end of the year, and either you pay him or he pays you the difference.


                            Collecting S7 can be a real pain. Getting 80% of what you deserve is not too shabby. Figure out how many lawyer hours it will take to get the difference.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              The split would be 550 CS and 200 toward daycare which i advised them I was fine with, however it leaves 17000 in arrears outstanding they want me to completely wave plus any other S7 costs I pay 100 percent of. I tried to work with their offer in terms of balancing at the end of the year but they would not compromise on anything. It was all or none so I was forced to decline and have a trial date set.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Lemongirl View Post
                                The split would be 550 CS and 200 toward daycare which i advised them I was fine with, however it leaves 17000 in arrears outstanding they want me to completely wave plus any other S7 costs I pay 100 percent of. I tried to work with their offer in terms of balancing at the end of the year but they would not compromise on anything. It was all or none so I was forced to decline and have a trial date set.
                                If you are going to trial, then make a severable offer ASAP.

                                A) 550 CS
                                B) 200 S7 daycare costs
                                C) 30%-70% split for S7 costs (or whatever your percentage is, offer slightly better than the real split. So if it was really 30-70 then offer 35-65)
                                D) 14,000 in arrears (like part C, always good to undershoot a little on these offers)


                                They will likely accept A and B, you go to court for C and D. Worst comes to worst, you at least have your enforceable $200 a month.

                                If they are dumb enough to reject every part of your severable offer, then they almost certainly get nailed for costs. The costs recovery starts from the day they receive that offer, which is why I suggest that you send it ASAP.

                                Comment

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