Kids being left alone

[lets_be_fair]

I have been trying for the past couple of years to get a 50/50 arrangement going so the children would be with a parent more than they would be in childcare. Because my X continued to change up lawyers and hide her work schedule this has been an ongoing struggle. We finally got into mediation.
The children are now G10 and the oldest just turned G13. Childcare is now not being used and they are now being been left alone between 4-12 hours while their mother works. She calls it "teaching them independence."
I am trying to get a rotation of access that suits her schedule as well as seeing the kids are never left alone.
Mediation this past 2 weeks has got nowhere and she will not budge her days as well as stating the independence part.
We are now entering arbitration with the same mediation guy.
My question is....Is there an arbitrator in this world who would agree children that age should be left alone if a parent is available?

Communication wise there is plenty of text and emails to prove we work together but during mediation she swings it a total different way.

Presently we are:
Week one: Thursday after school to over night
Week two: Monday after school to over night, Thurs after school to Sun 6 pm but because she is working she can't pick up until 8 pm each sunday.

The change would be:
Week one: Wednesday over night to thursday over night (cover her two shifts)
Week two: Monday and Tues over night, Thurs-Mon morning

This schedule will see the girls are not left alone. It is adding one extra day each week to my schedule as these are the days she is working. She actually said she would give me 4 hours on the one night she is working but wants one of my current overnights back in return seeing me losing an overnight i currently have.
She refuses me to have the girls extra time as it would kill her to think the girls are enjoying any extra time with their dad.

[Janus]

The change would be:
Week one: Wednesday over night to thursday over night (cover her two shifts)
Week two: Monday and Tues over night, Thurs-Mon morning

So, in a two week period you have:

Week 1: Wed, Thursday nights
Weeks 2: Mon, Tue, Thu, Fri, Sat, Sun nights

That gives you 57.1% which is dangerously close to 60% where you would be entitled to table child support. About 10 days over the entire year. If you get march break and maybe some other random stuff you can easily breach the magical barrier.

I would expect some stiff resistance.

She refuses me to have the girls extra time as it would kill her to think the girls are enjoying any extra time with their dad.

It would kill her to pay that child support. I would refuse as well in her shoes. There is nothing wrong with babysitters.

[calicodacat]

It would kill her to pay that child support. I would refuse as well in her shoes. There is nothing wrong with babysitters.

I agree... but being left alone at 13 with a yonger sibling of 10 is questionable. The laws vary from Prov to Prov. You know your kids, is this reasonable? I for one would need to have a really good plan in place, IE: somebody close and at home in case of emergency, babystting training course for the 13 yr old, proper written emergency plan. Do they have to cook? The questions go on and on in my head. It is one thing to build independence but another to put kids in a dangerous situation. I for one would not be comfortable with this and I push the whole independence this and the kids are quite responsable.

[stripes]

"Between 4 and 12 hours" is a wide range of time. If it's a situation where a 13 yr old is left in charge all night from 7.00 pm until 7.00 am four nights a week, that's extreme. However, if it's a situation where a 13 yr old is in charge from 4.00 until a parent comes home from work at 8.00 a couple of times a week, that's within the realm of normal (and is similar to babysitting, which a 13 yr old can do). I would get a better handle on exactly how long the kids are being left alone for before you make an argument for more access on the basis that they are being left along for too long and so you should have them.

A better argument might be that it is just generally best for the kids to spend equal time with both parents, and you are able to facilitate this, so you're seeking a change to your order on that basis.

[Links17]

I think I have answered this before, I have seen people lose custody repeatedly because they work shifts where they are never home when the kids are home after school.

Why have custody if you are never going to be with the kid?

They can maybe get extended access rights - 2 weekends out of 3....
Go for sole custody, she isn't available - tough.

[arabian]

I think a 10 and 12 year old should take certified babysitting course. This will give them the wherewithal to know what to do in case of emergency.

Nowadays pretty much every kid has a cell phone.

Divorce sucks and parents are ultimately too self-absorbed to make decisions with the best interests of children (work schedules). Kids are pawns for child support. Always comes down to the money IMO.

Stripes' comment above makes sense.

[magic3]

Depending on where you live, there's a program called Home Alone, which teaches kids exactly that - safety being home alone. It's for kids aged 10+. Free in Toronto.

[Janus]

I agree... but being left alone at 13 with a yonger sibling of 10 is questionable.

When I was 11 I was babysitting my 3 year old brother, and doing a mighty fine job at it. I also (*gasp*) cooked scrambled eggs or grilled cheese at that age, and took public transit.

It is one thing to build independence but another to put kids in a dangerous situation. I for one would not be comfortable with this and I push the whole independence this and the kids are quite responsable.

If you think a 13 year old can't be left home alone, then you say the word "independence" but you don't actually mean it. You are a helicopter parent, and you are hovering so low to the ground that your downwash is beginning to hurt other kids. Stop it.

[Tayken]

If you think a 13 year old can't be left home alone, then you say the word "independence" but you don't actually mean it. You are a helicopter parent, and you are hovering so low to the ground that your downwash is beginning to hurt other kids. Stop it.

^^^ This. The OP has no case. A judge would probably say the same thing. There are no "laws" about ages and being home "alone".

[Flora13]

Hello,

If you have concerns why don't you send the children to one of the babysitting/home alone classes? They are relatively cheap and available at most community centers. Teach them to prepare a few simple and easy meals so they don't burn the house down. Leave an emergency contact # to call just in case. then tell them you love them, trust them, how proud you are of their independence and value their contributions to each other.

[Links17]

You guys are all wrong, I will provide case law. Not being home 4 days/week after school is grounds to lose custody

Under 12yrs old fro an extended period in time would be considered negligence by a court.

[calicodacat]

When I was 11 I was babysitting my 3 year old brother, and doing a mighty fine job at it. I also (*gasp*) cooked scrambled eggs or grilled cheese at that age, and took public transit.



If you think a 13 year old can't be left home alone, then you say the word "independence" but you don't actually mean it. You are a helicopter parent, and you are hovering so low to the ground that your downwash is beginning to hurt other kids. Stop it.

I am as far away from a helicopter parent as you can get. My S9 takes transit on his own, cooks simple stuff on the stove and yes stays home for short periods of time on his own. GF's S12 is ok to stay home for extended periods of time, we have no issues. Actually he babysat his s7 this summer during the day, Mom works about 5 mins away. But again we have gone down the list of things I mentioned in my prev post to make sure they are ready. I believe in my kids being ready and I know that if ever questioned by the authorities they would be able to satisfy the criteria for being responsible. However this doesn't mean Id be comfortable leaving him in charge of S7 from after school till 9PM when mom gets home everynight, there is a whole lot more involved there. I would need to take some more steps before that happens.

I can guarantee you that if somebody was to call CAS and your children could not prove that they could answer some or all of the safety plan questions there would be some trouble. As this forum knows, just because something makes sense doesn't mean that the law or authorities will interpret it that way. The legislation in Ontario states under 16 cannot be left alone, http://cwrp.ca/sites/default/files/p...ns/en/144e.pdf

[arabian]

The research paper you cite fails to note that children may legally work in Ontario (and other provinces) at age of 14. Hardly makes sense that a 14 year old in Ontario would be legally of age to work yet cannot be left home alone until age 16.

[calicodacat]

I believe they do talk about it at some point and I completely agree! It is crazy to think that some politicians thought that this was reasonable.

[arabian]

The Canadian Red Cross provides the certified babysitting course for 12 year-olds across Canada. This speaks for itself as I don't believe the Red Cross would provide a program (and receive Federal and Provincial funding) if they were in contravention of the existing laws.