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  • Income Decreased

    Finally got my ex's tax papers last month (yeah, better late than never!) and noticed that she switched jobs and now makes about $10k less at her new career choice. It was voluntary switch.

    Am I off base by saying her CS is based on her previous earnings and inputting an income to her for CS?

    We have shared 50/50 custody with offset CS, me being the payor (higher income).

    Would be nice if anyone could point me to some case law where someone switched jobs and made less but was forced income imputed to them.

    Thanks.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Canadaguy View Post
    Finally got my ex's tax papers last month (yeah, better late than never!) and noticed that she switched jobs and now makes about $10k less at her new career choice. It was voluntary switch.

    Am I off base by saying her CS is based on her previous earnings and inputting an income to her for CS?

    We have shared 50/50 custody with offset CS, me being the payor (higher income).

    Would be nice if anyone could point me to some case law where someone switched jobs and made less but was forced income imputed to them.

    Thanks.
    I haven't read any case law on that, but I think you're reasonable in your assumption that the offset should be based on what she was making, and is capable of making.

    Did you run the numbers? What is the actual difference monthly?
    If it's a small amount, may not even be worth addressing.

    Comment


    • #3
      It may hinge on why she changed jobs.

      If her old job ended and was no longer available, and the newer job was in the same field and paid less, then she may have a case.

      If she voluntarily left the position for a lower paying one in a different field, then she should have the old income imputed.

      Comment


      • #4
        CS should be based on her most recent Line 150. But before you think about going after her for the difference between what she made in 2012 and what she made in 2013, consider whether this is worth the time and effort or whether you should just pay the offset based on her most recent tax form going forward. How much difference would $10K make in your payments? This depends on your income and hers:

        Scenario A: You earn $80K per year; she went from earning $30K to $20K

        Scenario B: You earn $150 per year; she went from earning $110 to $100K.

        In the first case, it makes a big difference; in the second case probably not worth your time to pursue. My understanding is that imputing an income is only really worth it when someone is very clearly underemployed - working far below what they could work. People are allowed to switch jobs and to have their income fluctuate.

        Comment


        • #5
          She left her job for a different one in a different field for less money because she wanted too. Her previous job was government with good pension and crazy pay for what she did.

          The pay difference is more like Stripes example #1, so it is worth fighting for me.

          I pay by cheque, so if she disagrees by having me input her income she has to take me to mediation according to our agreement and has to pay for mediation which will cost more than it's worth. So really it is up too me what I decide to do.

          Going to have to do some research so that if I do go to mediation I have case law on my side that input income is the right thing to do.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Canadaguy View Post
            She left her job for a different one in a different field for less money because she wanted too. Her previous job was government with good pension and crazy pay for what she did.

            The pay difference is more like Stripes example #1, so it is worth fighting for me.

            I pay by cheque, so if she disagrees by having me input her income she has to take me to mediation according to our agreement and has to pay for mediation which will cost more than it's worth. So really it is up too me what I decide to do.

            Going to have to do some research so that if I do go to mediation I have case law on my side that input income is the right thing to do.
            I don't think you can imput her income yourself, I think a judge has to do that.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by standing on the sidelines View Post
              I don't think you can imput her income yourself, I think a judge has to do that.
              Yes, true but we have to agree on the change in support. And if we don't we can either keep it the same or change it to whatever we feel like.

              Then the other party has to determine if it is worth taking to court. If I have case law backing me up, then why would she fight a potential losing cause that will cost more than it's worth when a judge would just do the same as me.

              I write the cheques so I have some leverage on what I decide to pay.

              Comment


              • #8
                I would just not modify the child support and keep paying the same amount and let her start the conflict.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Canadaguy View Post
                  I write the cheques so I have some leverage on what I decide to pay.

                  No, you pay what the law and your agreement says you pay until you have a legal piece of paper saying otherwise. You don't get to just decide that your ex should be imputed (not "inputted") some arbitrary amount of income and then pay what you want to pay. You are not a judge. You use the most recent income information available; if you think this does not reflect her true earning power, take it to mediation or to court. If you deliberately underpay your child support obligations because you don't feel like following the law, it will not look good on you.

                  Think about it this way: maybe YOU should be imputed a higher income. You could probably make more money than you currently do, if you really tried. What would you think if your ex said "I'd like to 'input' your income at $200 000 because I believe you could earn that much money if you really tried. So starting next month, you owe me an additional $500"? Ridiculous, right?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Canadaguy View Post
                    Yes, true but we have to agree on the change in support. And if we don't we can either keep it the same or change it to whatever we feel like.

                    Then the other party has to determine if it is worth taking to court. If I have case law backing me up, then why would she fight a potential losing cause that will cost more than it's worth when a judge would just do the same as me.

                    I write the cheques so I have some leverage on what I decide to pay.

                    You have it alll wrong. If you want to lower your support obligations you must get a new order. I am sure your order or agreement does not say 'the parties must agree on new cs amounts and if they don't one party gets to arbitrarily decide what's owed'

                    You pay based on line 150, if you feel she should be making more you have to be the one to initiate mediation or court to have her income imputed. There are many cases to back up the fact that changing jobs for reduced income is actually in the best interest of the children so your case law you have backing you up may be worthless to you.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      You might pay by cheque right now, but if you just make the decision to change the amount without discussion and a court order, she can decide to register with FRO and they will enforce the court order regardless. So be careful thinking you hold all the cards.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Beachnana View Post
                        You might pay by cheque right now, but if you just make the decision to change the amount without discussion and a court order, she can decide to register with FRO and they will enforce the court order regardless. So be careful thinking you hold all the cards.

                        Yes BUT, if his order has the ex at the higher income then offset will stay the same when shes lowered her income too.

                        However, she can still register at FRO and from the sounds of it you're making less so you're still subject to the higher amount.

                        Tread carefully. My partner reduced his cs based on lower income AND provided a cheque for arrears on the higher income he was making the previous year. Ex filed with FRO. Now for him, the order was signed when he was on EI before so he was covered in a way but now they will have to go to court when he gets a higher paying job because his ex is high conflict and non-negotiable. Best to speak to a lawyer to see just how you go about it. You might have some negotiating power IF imputing looks successful. You also have to weigh the legal costs too. If you're unsuccessful, you could be on the hook for her costs too.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Simple question:

                          What would you want to happen should you decide to take a lower paying job? Would you want your c/s payments to be reduced accordingly? Do you think your ex would agree to reducing c/s?

                          This is another cost/benefit question - How much are you willing to spend to have the income imputed? You may win the battle in having the income imputed, but lose the war in legal fees.

                          Should you refuse to agree to your ex's new income, the ex can file a motion to up c/s accordingly. There may be good reason to her for the change, notwithstanding whether or not you agree with that reason.

                          Think big picture here. Are you likely to succeed? How much are you willing to pay to succeed? What would you want to happen if roles were reversed?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I went through a similar income change with my ex; she reduced her pay by $12,000 per year when she switched jobs. I received no notification from her about this change; no reason was given. I found out when we exchanged our financials for our annual review. I pointed out to her that because she is a child support payor she cannot arbitrarily volunteer to reduce her income without notifying me considering the financial impact - based on my understanding neither one of us can arbitrarily volunteer to reduce our incomes. We compromised, we did our annual review using the income she should have been earning for that year. Then we redid the numbers using her actual income for the next year. I knew it would cost more to go to court or hire a lawyer than it would be to accept that she had changed jobs. She also has an imputed income (she has a history of stopping work when she feels like it) so she can choose to make less but she knows her cs will be based on the imputed amount regardless. Her income currently hovers just above the imputed amount.
                            Last edited by first timer; 12-05-2014, 12:09 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by first timer View Post
                              I went through a similar income change with my ex; she reduced her pay by $12,000 per year when she switched jobs. I received no notification from her about this change; no reason was given.
                              People don't have to justify their household decisions to the other former spouse.

                              I found out when we exchanged our financials for our annual review. I pointed out to her that because she is a child support payor she cannot arbitrarily volunteer to reduce her income without notifying me considering the financial impact - based on my understanding neither one of us can arbitrarily volunteer to reduce our incomes.
                              Says who? An individual may choose to take a lower paying job for a number of reasonable reasons. As mentioned above, as they are no longer married, they don't have to justify their decisions with their former spouse.

                              We compromised, we did our annual review using the income she should have been earning for that year. Then we redid the numbers using her actual income for the next year. I knew it would cost more to go to court or hire a lawyer than it would be to accept that she had changed jobs. She also has an imputed income (she has a history of stopping work when she feels like it) so she can choose to make less but she knows her cs will be based on the imputed amount regardless. Her income currently hovers just above the imputed amount.
                              It is good that you were able to negotiate this, because had it gone to court, your success on imputing the old income would hinge off of whether the ex's decision was reasonable.

                              One can't arbitrarily quit their $100k job to take a job at Timmies making $20k annually. But one can certainly take a job that moves their income from $50k to $40k if there is good reason behind it (closer to home, better/flexible work hours, better benefits etc. etc.)

                              Many years ago I took a job that paid me about $10k less annually to be closer to my child. I didn't tell my ex about the decreased income as my income is none of her business until it comes time to make the annual adjustments. At that time I reduced my c/s accordingly. My ex complained, but I told her my reasoning and that if she had a problem she can take me to court. She didn't because my reasoning was sound and she would've lost.

                              Comment

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