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  • The Custody Wars

    While doing research today I ran across this, and although it is from Berkeley University in California, and speaks of the American Family Court System, I do not think it is solely based for the United States. I urge everyone in here to take some time and really read this through, because I could not believe the reality of it. All of us in here are guilty of contributing to the Custody Wars.

    Berkeley Law - The Custody Wars
    Last edited by ConcernenedStepMom78; 01-06-2011, 03:03 PM.

  • #2
    Maybe all of us in this forum are somewhat guilty but I like to think that we are in the vast minority of folks who separate. I hope and expect that most separating parents are able to work out their parenting plans on their own without resorting to the courts. Hence the children are well taken care of and not treated as "property".

    If that's true then I believe the author of that book is taking a rather dim view of the climate by focusing in on a minority of the children of separated parents.

    I also would have liked to believe that the author gave an example or two where Dad was the primary caregiver for the children as opposed to vaguely referring to parenting as a desriable determinant of custody.

    Rather the specific paternal examples he gave in that piece were not complimentary to fathers e.g. contesting custody based on lineage instead of parenting.

    If he could have provided some more balance in his examples I think his view would be more credible.

    Comment


    • #3
      That article is an excerpt from the whole picture, and book. The fact is that the UN and all of its countries are fighting for the righs and the voice of children.

      If you are still focussing solely on the "parental rights" aspect of this article than the the point of the whole article was missed.

      Comment


      • #4
        No I wasn't just focusing on that. I used it as an example.

        Moreover, the whole point of my post might have been missed.

        The members on this forum are part of a specific population that almost by definition are guilty of custody wars.

        My point is that (I hope and expect) this community, this forum, is in the minority vs all children of separated parents. And that most children of separated parents are well adjusted because their parents separated amibicably and with little or no conflict.

        I think we have to be careful that we are not projecting the relatively sad experiences of our small community onto all children of separated parents.

        In other words, while the author has a point when it comes to mal-adjusted kids, those kids (hopefully) are in the vast minority. His book will be useful for them, but not most children.

        Comment


        • #5
          YOur points are valid DDTE, but the reality is more than 60% of children are now in broken and blended homes. If the author felt that there was not such a problem, than she would not have written the book. The copyright is a bit older 1999, but the problem(s) still exist.

          Myself included, we all sit in here and discuss custody, and access and child support, treating our children like property, carting them between two homes and two lives, and tell them "this is the way it is so deal with it".

          If we put our most precious gifts in a room and let them simply talk and let out all of their feelings, about being in two homes, and being carted back and forth, like a common piece of luggage, IF we allowed them a voice, away from our influences, WHAT would they say?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by ConcernenedStepMom78 View Post
            If we put our most precious gifts in a room and let them simply talk and let out all of their feelings, about being in two homes, and being carted back and forth, like a common piece of luggage, IF we allowed them a voice, away from our influences, WHAT would they say?
            They would say that they want mom & dad to get back together and all live in the same house... not possible. This is why young children's opinions on custody arrangements are not possible.

            Comment


            • #7
              FAIL.....Point entirely missed, Children have RIGHTS too!!!! Now I know why IPP was getting so upset about C-422, nobody can see past themselves.

              Comment


              • #8
                Ok, so what do you think that the children's rights should be?

                Comment


                • #9
                  I think as the article says that they should have the right to have a voice, in custody and access. Parents are treating children like possesions and when we speak of parental alienation, we forget that there are other people, what about child alienation?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ConcernenedStepMom78 View Post
                    YOur points are valid DDTE, but the reality is more than 60% of children are now in broken and blended homes. If the author felt that there was not such a problem, than she would not have written the book. The copyright is a bit older 1999, but the problem(s) still exist.

                    Myself included, we all sit in here and discuss custody, and access and child support, treating our children like property, carting them between two homes and two lives, and tell them "this is the way it is so deal with it".

                    If we put our most precious gifts in a room and let them simply talk and let out all of their feelings, about being in two homes, and being carted back and forth, like a common piece of luggage, IF we allowed them a voice, away from our influences, WHAT would they say?
                    Originally posted by ConcernenedStepMom78 View Post
                    FAIL.....Point entirely missed, Children have RIGHTS too!!!! Now I know why IPP was getting so upset about C-422, nobody can see past themselves.
                    Often times children are too young to make mature decisions about where they want to live. That's why the court won't give weight to their preferences before they are teenagers.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ConcernenedStepMom78 View Post
                      FAIL.....Point entirely missed, Children have RIGHTS too!!!! Now I know why IPP was getting so upset about C-422, nobody can see past themselves.
                      Yes, they have rights, but they are also handicapped by an inability to think strategically... Their capability for abstract reasoning is a long way from being developed.

                      Would you have a child exercise his "right" to choose a parent based on who has the best candy at home?

                      Cheers!

                      Gary

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by dadtotheend View Post
                        In other words, while the author has a point when it comes to mal-adjusted kids, those kids (hopefully) are in the vast minority. His book will be useful for them, but not most children.
                        Originally posted by ConcernenedStepMom78 View Post
                        If the author felt that there was not such a problem, than she would not have written the book.
                        Did I not just acknowledge that?

                        My point is that we, as members of that community, tend to think that because our kids are in the danger zone, most are. I would like to believe that we and our children are in the minority.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by dadtotheend View Post
                          I would like to believe that we and our children are in the minority.
                          As would I.

                          Sure, they're not sitting on a drought-baked mud flat in Africa with a vulture sitting behind them, patiently waiting for them to draw their last breath, but some of our kids have suffered enormously... I, too, would hope that they're in the minority - desperately so.

                          Gary

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Sorry for posting this. Please forget I said anayhting.
                            Last edited by ConcernenedStepMom78; 01-06-2011, 05:18 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Please don't project your isolated case onto the population of children at large.

                              The system doesn't have the luxury of examining every child's individual situation and making an assessment. That is the parents job, but when the court is forced to be involved, it becomes clear that the parents can't or won't fulfill that responsibility.

                              So the state, sadly, has to do it for them.

                              You don't honestly think that children less than 12 years old by and large have the mental capacity to reach mature decisions of this magnitiude, do you?????

                              If you do, then I suggest that you bone up on your child psychology.

                              Comment

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