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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #11  
Old 01-13-2021, 01:51 PM
Kinso Kinso is offline
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There are very few family lawyers in the $700/hr+ range. They are usually at firms and are highly respected/experienced members of the bar. However, 99% of cases do not need that kind of specialization. If you're dealing with multiple valuable businesses, and foreign holdings then sure... they may have value. That isn't you. They're the kind of lawyer that if you need to ask the price, you can't afford the fees.

Many lawyers in the $300-$450/hr range are skilled litigators who could represent your interests without issue. Your retainer will still be significant, but likely 60-100k, not 300k. Also, an 18 day trial with counsel is insane. A good lawyer will try and narrow that down to minimize trial time.

Make some calls to new lawyers.
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  #12  
Old 01-13-2021, 02:25 PM
rockscan rockscan is offline
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I would also suggest looking through canlii.org for cases in Ontario/Toronto and the successful lawyer. You can also check rate lawyers on Google as some of those show people who make comments about their lawyers.

Kinso and Janus are correct. There are really great lawyer who work at 300-400 an hour. If you are paying 700 and your lawyer got railroaded in court then either you are lying about your case or your lawyer is an idiot not worth the money.


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  #13  
Old 01-13-2021, 02:35 PM
Kinso Kinso is offline
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Quote:
I would also suggest looking through canlii.org for cases in Ontario/Toronto and the successful lawyer. You can also check rate lawyers on Google as some of those show people who make comments about their lawyers.
With all due respect to rockscan I don't agree with the 'review CanLII for success rates" idea. Mainly because failure or success at trial is far more dependent on the facts than the lawyer.

Some lawyers take hard cases to court, they lose but they go down with a fight because that was what the client insisted upon. Other lawyers only take 'easy' cases to trial, they have high success rates but they're cherry picking.

Also, online reviews are stupid for family lawyers. Most of them (mine included) are written by opposing parties who are bitter. The ones with glowing perfect reviews are either written by the lawyers themselves, or they strongly encourage their clients to leave favorable feedback.

Review CanLII, not for win/lose, but for complements from the Judge. "Despite able submissions from Mr. X" is a complement to the lawyer, even though he/she is being ruled against. If Judges are critical of the lawyers' conduct, be mindful of that (although not unskeptical, as Judges are human too).
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  #14  
Old 01-13-2021, 03:32 PM
rockscan rockscan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinso View Post
With all due respect to rockscan I don't agree with the 'review CanLII for success rates" idea. Mainly because failure or success at trial is far more dependent on the facts than the lawyer.

Some lawyers take hard cases to court, they lose but they go down with a fight because that was what the client insisted upon. Other lawyers only take 'easy' cases to trial, they have high success rates but they're cherry picking.

Also, online reviews are stupid for family lawyers. Most of them (mine included) are written by opposing parties who are bitter. The ones with glowing perfect reviews are either written by the lawyers themselves, or they strongly encourage their clients to leave favorable feedback.

Review CanLII, not for win/lose, but for complements from the Judge. "Despite able submissions from Mr. X" is a complement to the lawyer, even though he/she is being ruled against. If Judges are critical of the lawyers' conduct, be mindful of that (although not unskeptical, as Judges are human too).

I should have elaborated. Read the cases and see what the judge said/facts of the case. Decisions are a good indicator of the ability of the lawyer. A judge is not afraid to write down that a lawyer didnt do their homework.

As for the reviews...read them but consider them carefully. I went through them to see my husbands lawyer, his exs lawyer and also lawyers my mom had. The reviews are pretty easy to see through if you take it with a grain of salt. My husbands lawyer normally deals with women suing for full custody and $$$ spousal support so his reviews are glowing from them. It was more the told it to me straight, encouraged me to be realistic, didnt mince words reviews that I believed.

I am a research kind of person though so I am not afraid to do some digging and then consider the info I find.

Off topic: if you want to have some real fun, look through medical specialist reviews.


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  #15  
Old 01-13-2021, 03:40 PM
StillPaying StillPaying is offline
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Originally Posted by polgara View Post
Are you saying it is possible to take less than scheduled? How would that work with all witnesses? They will be called on different days I am assuming
Trials are usually booked to give extra time rather than less. Your case may also not get called this trial round.

Witnesses can also be used as a scaring tactic. Up until the first day of trial where they admit it'll just be them. However with 300k, i'm guessing you have lots of witnesses and they're all expert specialists.
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  #16  
Old 01-22-2021, 02:22 AM
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Tayken Tayken is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinso View Post
With all due respect to rockscan I don't agree with the 'review CanLII for success rates" idea. Mainly because failure or success at trial is far more dependent on the facts than the lawyer.
Somewhat agree that for most lawyers there isn't enough depth to anything posted to CanLII usually. But, with the right eye (and AI engine) you can pull a lot of interesting stats on lawyers. (I do this for fun!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinso View Post
Some lawyers take hard cases to court, they lose but they go down with a fight because that was what the client insisted upon.
Often known as "negative advocate lawyer". They will support their client's position no matter what or how bad it is.

William Eddy on the subject: https://www.highconflictinstitute.co...vocates-or-not

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinso View Post
Other lawyers only take 'easy' cases to trial, they have high success rates but they're cherry picking.
I would counter this with these lawyers know how to pick reasonable clients and know when to fish or cut bait. Very good lawyers will pick and choose their clients wisely. This is because they have a reputation they maintain with judges that they never bring clients forward who are "nuts".

I can name a few 700$ an hour lawyers in Toronto who when they walk into the court room the judge already knows that they don't represent "high conflict and troublesome clients" because they refuse to work with these high-conflict people. But, it takes years in practice to be able to pick and choose clients like this and establish that reputation.

Judges know who are the lawyers that will take on any client and will put forward any argument, no matter how awful, are...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinso View Post
Also, online reviews are stupid for family lawyers. Most of them (mine included) are written by opposing parties who are bitter. The ones with glowing perfect reviews are either written by the lawyers themselves, or they strongly encourage their clients to leave favorable feedback.
I agree 100%. Online reviews are total 100% garbage.
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  #17  
Old 01-22-2021, 10:26 AM
vocalfather vocalfather is offline
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Hi Polgara,

I had a 21-day trial and can tell you that it didn't cost anywhere close to what your current lawyer is attempting to charge. I'd find a new lawyer and fast. I'd request an adjournment and advise why. I think you'll find the judge sympathetic to "why" you need to. After going through the trial, I'd agree that it is a definite possibility to have a lawyer just prep all your paperwork/etc and then handle the proceedings yourself. I think you could also have the lawyer come in at points and speak/conduct part of the trial on your behalf as well if you so choose.

Wishing you all the best. You will get through this and come out on the other side.
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