the unexpeceted

[She took the kids]

As far as I was told, the mother was "cured" and despite that I have been trying to get my kids from day one. I did not want the grandparents raising my children, I am plenty capable of that task myself. Oh and how can i talk to them when they won't even answer the phone.

[Zhoozhelitsa]

Why don't you just go over and try talking to them?

[mama2bee]

Why don't you just go over and try talking to them?

To cause further conflict? It seems they do not want to be reasonable to which his last resort seems to be a court order.

[Zhoozhelitsa]

To cause further conflict? It seems they do not want to be reasonable to which his last resort seems to be a court order.

Don't these things take a while? Sorry, I'm not sure how it works.

[mama2bee]

Better than getting a restraining order slapped against him

[Zhoozhelitsa]

Better than getting a restraining order slapped against him

But wait, if he has access, they cannot prevent him from seeing the kids. Isn't it against the law? He didn't mention any paperwork so I'm assuming there are no days/hours set in writing.

[mama2bee]

I give up ... good luck STTK

[dadtotheend]

But wait, if he has access, they cannot prevent him from seeing the kids. Isn't it against the law? He didn't mention any paperwork so I'm assuming there are no days/hours set in writing.

Oh yeah? You have a lot to learn about enforcement of access.

[Zhoozhelitsa]

Oh yeah? You have a lot to learn about enforcement of access.

Does this mean that you are disagreeing with what I just said about his right to access his children?

[dadtotheend]

No it means you don't appear to have much insight into one of the worst abuses in family law, where parents are denied access to their children and that in spite of what a separation agreement or a court order says, the consequences for such actions are virtually non-existent.

Your relative inexperience with these matters probably explains your naivite. And it may explain to you why people like myself get so up in arms when it is perpetrated i.e. by the grandparents in this thread!!

[Zhoozhelitsa]

There, Dad, I knew you were capable of communicating without being abrasive and I'm glad you are right now.

Now look at what I've said:

But wait, if he has access, they cannot prevent him from seeing the kids. Isn't it against the law? He didn't mention any paperwork so I'm assuming there are no days/hours set in writing.

I said that it was against the law for the grandparents to block access. And he has no paperwork saying, let's say, that he can only see them on weekends, therefore, he can see them anytime.

This is the point you were making as well, right?

[mama2bee]

There, Dad, I knew you were capable of communicating without being abrasive and I'm glad you are right now.

Now look at what I've said:

Zhoozhelista, maybe if you worded things so they did not come across as a personal attack people would be more apt to want to answer in a non defensive tone.

[Zhoozhelitsa]

Zhoozhelista, maybe if you worded things so they did not come across as a personal attack people would be more apt to want to answer in a non defensive tone.

But the fact is, Dad's posts ARE abrasive. Why does stating a fact = personal attack? And it's only now that I can see that he is communicating well, and I'm glad because I want to know what he thinks. It's just hard to get through to him because of all the emotions and bad language and such. You know what I mean?

[She took the kids]

still hanging in

Yesterday was my eldest daughters birthday. I wasn't allow to see her or her sister by the family. I submitted my motion today with hopes that it will be heard tomorrow on an urgent basis. If it is not heard tomorrow, it will be three weeks before it is able to come in front of a judge again. I feel that this all could have been avoided with a little civility. On the phone my eldest asked me why I hadn't come to pick her and her sister up yet..... What am I to say to her?? I hope this doesn't go on for too much longer.

[Mess]

Why does stating a fact = personal attack?

Disingeneous. "You are 40 lbs overweight" comes across one way from your doctor and very differently from your spouse in the middle of an argument. In both cases it is "stating a fact". There is a hell of a lot more involved in communication besides distinguishing facts. Unless you are 12 you should at least have some clue about this by now. That is a fact too.

Same with asking loaded questions, or a dozen other manipulative tactics. Stop and think about how you say things and how they can come across.

Communication isn't about what you say. It's about how you are heard. There is a lot of noise and interpretation that comes inbetween you and the listener/reader. If you find yourself habitually retreating behind the excuse of "I was just stating a fact" then maybe it's time to step back and examine why people are taking what you say as negative.