Divorcees Excluded

[Teddie]

Has anyone else noticed that after divorce your friends kind of disappear, especially the ones who are still married?

I made sure when I was around friends that I would not talk everyone's ear off about my problems as I know that tends to drive people away. If friends asked I would tell them the cole's notes version of what is going on and keep it at that. My friends and their wives have never like my ex and were supportive when we split. Fast forward almost three years and especially this last year I have been left out of almost all of their plans. I have been in a relationship for a year and a half, a woman I met well after my ex and I split. My friends have met her and everyone said they love her but we still don't get invited to any of the "couples" things.

In most cases the wives are the ones making the plans these days and the guys are seemingly oblivious as to what the plans are and who is being invited. I have heard from other people in my position that even though my new fiance was not the cause of the divorce, some women will still see them in a negative light, similar to a mistress. Other married couples just don't want divorced people around. I like to think that people are not that petty but recently I heard that one of my friends wives remarked that when we are married we will be included.

I don't get offended or upset very easily but the exclusion is so apparent that it's hard to ignore. My guy friends will invite me out for beers on the rare occassion that they go out but as we get older most of the events are couples things and its always the wives planning. A few times the guys have asked, "How come you weren't at the party last week?" and I've mentioned that I was never invited. Not all women are like this, don't get me wrong, but my friends wives are the jealous type and it wouldn't surprise me for one minute that we are excluded because my fiance is a very attractive women with a great personality and the guys love her to death.

Anyways, more of a rant than anything else. I'm just pissy because everyone is getting together on Saturday for a hockey party to drink and eat and watch the return of the NHL and again, it seems its married couples only and we weren't invited.

We recently bought a home and invited everyone over for our house warming party. When New Year's eve came, my friend threw a party for everyone and we weren't invited. I'm not a petty person but enough is enough and I feel like I shouldn't even be inviting these people to our wedding later this year. In fact we've almost come to the decision to have family only.

Anyhow, just a rant but I am sure others on here have experienced the same thing. It really shows you who is worth having around in your life.

[hadenough]

I can relate to a lot of what your saying and I have experienced much of the same. As a single person, I've definitely fallen off the invite list for many things. Strange thing is: this is not out of any "loyalty" these friends had/have with my ex. They don't bother w/him at all, and some didn't very much at all even when I was with him.

I was going to suggest jealousy issues as I was reading your thread but I see you have already guessed, that (that) is a factor. It's a shame. Very true also. A lot of women are threatened/intimidated by other attractive women. Their insecurity is really just a sad reflection on the fact that they probably don't have the ideal marriages that they'd like everyone to believe.

I don't know how to explain it all away either, but I too have noticed similar behavior/reactions. I'm kinda damned sometimes either way. If I arrive somewhere solo, that's a problem. If I come with someone, people make assumptions. I have more male friends than female friends precisely b/c of the fact that women (over many years) have not been that friendly with me. Of course some are. Others pretend to be. Still others make no bones about the fact that I am not liked. I could describe several scenarios I've experienced.

When a woman is attractive, personable and smart she can become a triple threat to these insecure types. Oh yes, I've seen the green eyed monster plenty of times. I don't know what to suggest to you, but I do understand what you are describing and I'm glad you brought it up. It's worth discussing and I've touched on it a few times, but never made it a main topic on here.

Sometimes we have to face the fact that a lot of people can be shallow and insincere. Time to trim the fat. Often people we thought were "good friends" are not, and during sep/divorce and the aftermath is when we find out who the real friends are. Sad to say, it's not nearly as many as we "thought."

[hadenough]

Reminds me of the movie "The Help" - great movie if you haven't seen it, and also a book. There's a character in that movie that very much wants to be accepted by the "other wives" and she's a total sweetheart. Problem is, she's just too damn attractive and genuinely NICE and the other women cannot handle it. Watch it if you haven't seen it. It's a fabulous movie.

If you were single, some of them would STILL have a problem. They'd think their husbands were out catting around with you. I'm telling you. You can't win for trying. I say, f*ck it and f*ck them - live your life, enjoy, make new memories and friends and remember that good friends are there through thick and thin. Chances are you are just seeing things from a more clear perspective than you were before. It's not that they have 'changed.' You just SEE them more clearly now. A lot of women are jealous, and a lot of men are whipped, in my opinion. Confident, secure, genuine people don't act in the way you have described some of your "friends."

[shellshocked22]

I tend to agree with your thoughts (and Hadenough's) that the main reason is quite likely the fact that your buddies' wives are jealous. The fact she is attractive, good personality and that guys like her as well as the simple fact that you WERE able to to replace the "old wife" (with a much improved "model perhaps lol ?) could very well make a lot of wives jealous (and perhaps nervous ?).

I suspect very few (if any lol) couples have fairytale marriages and the fact that you have a great gal after your divorce may cause some of your friends' wives to be afraid (even if subconciously) that THEIR husbands might look at your situation and think "hmmm, maybe I should consider a "new model" lol).

I have had more than one woman tell me that they find (some) females very catty and jealous and much prefer guys even as friends (at least if a guy is pissed at you you will generally know it !) vs some women.

However, here are some suggestions....

1) Continue to host parties at your place and invite your couple friends (well, at least the men are your friends lol) over. Once they get to know and like your new fiancee things might defrost. Also, simple social etiquette can be a pretty powerful motivator to "return the favour" when THEY host a party.

2) Perhaps for your closer male friends, be honest with them and basically ask them WHY you are not invited and tell them you were disappointed (for less close friends maybe give their wife an "out" and say obviously there was a glitch in the mailing and to perhaps let you know verbally next time). Unless the guy is totally a wimp and controlled by his wife he should discuss the matter with her and make it clear he wants you and your fiancee to attend. If not, is that really the type of spineless whipped wimp you want to consider a friend anyway ?

3) Look at developing NEW friends - perhaps from HER side, join clubs with a common interest (ie. sports leagues, work friends, social clubs, church, old buddies you lost contact with, etc.).

[hadenough]

Those are all great suggestions ^

Further to that, I noted (upon 1st splitting) that some people were just in awe. Like as if they were "admiring" me - for having the guts to do, what so many people (for many 'reasons' - ummm mostly financial) don't DO.

I have been seen I suppose, as a confidante for many people over the years, and I've heard a lot of stories and confessions. I know that some folks are 'happy' - but most I'd say are just complacent and often bitch about their spouses/partners.

It's as though they live in a bubble. Well I'm outside of that "bubble" and it's been pretty interesting from my vantage point. I am apprehensive to be in a relationship again because I've seen too many end in trouble, or worse - stay together in trouble. Women can be catty and possessive, (seems to be the norm) and men can behave in jealous/controlling ways as well. I just can't seem to conform to that.

Some folks are truly fortunate to find compatibility in a partner and I accept that it is possible. In my view, it seems to be the exception though, and not the rule.

Teddie, I'll bet ya that some of your beer buddies are envious of you too. They are wishing they had the nerve to change their lives and have another chance at happiness.

Anyway, the longer I stay single the more I want to stay this way. I hope everything works out well for you and your fiance, Teddie. One day you'll look back on it all and be glad that if you have 1 or 2 really great friends, that you are fortunate indeed. People who haven't been through sep/divorce often cannot relate at all to what you have been through. They nod obligingly and struggle to find the right words to say, but they really haven't got a clue.

*in my opinion*

[firhill]

Has anyone else noticed that after divorce your friends kind of disappear, especially the ones who are still married?

Hang out with the divorced/unmarried friends.

Based on the law of averages there should be more, of your (former) friends), in that group, than not.

[Teddie]

Reminds me of the movie "The Help" - great movie if you haven't seen it, and also a book. There's a character in that movie that very much wants to be accepted by the "other wives" and she's a total sweetheart. Problem is, she's just too damn attractive and genuinely NICE and the other women cannot handle it. Watch it if you haven't seen it. It's a fabulous movie.

If you were single, some of them would STILL have a problem. They'd think their husbands were out catting around with you. I'm telling you. You can't win for trying. I say, f*ck it and f*ck them - live your life, enjoy, make new memories and friends and remember that good friends are there through thick and thin. Chances are you are just seeing things from a more clear perspective than you were before. It's not that they have 'changed.' You just SEE them more clearly now. A lot of women are jealous, and a lot of men are whipped, in my opinion. Confident, secure, genuine people don't act in the way you have described some of your "friends."

I've seen that movie and I know exactly what character you're referring to.

You summed it up very well. When I was single shortly after my divorce, one of my friends wives thought that because we were heading out that we were going to pick up. And yes, there are a lot of jealous women and a lot of whipped guys, not to say that it doesn't happen vice versa sometimes. Well, the good news is my fiance is not controlling or jealous whatsoever and that is a breathe of fresh air.

[Teddie]

hadenough and shellshocked22 you're bringing up some great points. A lot of them are suspicions I have had and its good to hear that other people have suspected the same thing at times.

hadenough, I hear you on the staying single thing. I think I really lucked out by meeting who I'm with but if it ever falls apart I would think being single for a long time would be a good change....I think. Luckily I didn;t have to take part in the dating game for long but I have heard it's a whole different ball game than lets say 10 years ago.

firhill, it's surprising that out of all my friends (we're in the 33-40 age range), I was the first one married at age 26, the first to have kids and the first to divorce. Lots of the couples I know probably had just as many if not more reasons to split than me and my ex did but they are all still together. I think its just a matter of time and I think like hadenough said, they are afraid of the consequences of divorce.

[FightingForFamily]

hadenough, I hear you on the staying single thing. I think I really lucked out by meeting who I'm with but if it ever falls apart I would think being single for a long time would be a good change....I think. Luckily I didn;t have to take part in the dating game for long but I have heard it's a whole different ball game than lets say 10 years ago.

I feel the same way and so does my new partner. We were incredibly lucky to find each other given the circumstances in both our lives (we met shortly after separation by coincidence), but if it didn't work out for us we both feel we would have given it a good shot and stay single for a long time.

firhill, it's surprising that out of all my friends (we're in the 33-40 age range), I was the first one married at age 26, the first to have kids and the first to divorce. Lots of the couples I know probably had just as many if not more reasons to split than me and my ex did but they are all still together. I think its just a matter of time and I think like hadenough said, they are afraid of the consequences of divorce.

I'm in the same boat. I don't think I'll be the last to divorce but I was the first. When I look up some of my ex wives old friends on FB I am amazed that most if not all of them are still together considering the problems they were having when last I saw them. I think out of our group of friends people would have figured my ex and I to be among the least likely to split up.

A lot of them don't know many of the consequences of divorce, and 100% of them do not believe in the reality of family law. They just think I was "unlucky" or had a bad lawyer when it came to how my divorce was settled. However, I am a smart guy, I had money for a good lawyer and I took my time to do my research and try every approach and I still got a rotten deal. Good luck to them if they think they will do any better when it is their turn at the guillotine.

In terms of friends, I lost many, but gained a few, and some that I wasn't close with while married I am now very good friends with again. Life means change and few things bring about as much change as divorce does.

[Teddie]

I feel the same way and so does my new partner. We were incredibly lucky to find each other given the circumstances in both our lives (we met shortly after separation by coincidence), but if it didn't work out for us we both feel we would have given it a good shot and stay single for a long time.



I'm in the same boat. I don't think I'll be the last to divorce but I was the first. When I look up some of my ex wives old friends on FB I am amazed that most if not all of them are still together considering the problems they were having when last I saw them. I think out of our group of friends people would have figured my ex and I to be among the least likely to split up.

A lot of them don't know many of the consequences of divorce, and 100% of them do not believe in the reality of family law. They just think I was "unlucky" or had a bad lawyer when it came to how my divorce was settled. However, I am a smart guy, I had money for a good lawyer and I took my time to do my research and try every approach and I still got a rotten deal. Good luck to them if they think they will do any better when it is their turn at the guillotine.

In terms of friends, I lost many, but gained a few, and some that I wasn't close with while married I am now very good friends with again. Life means change and few things bring about as much change as divorce does.

I know some people who know their spouses are not always faithful and they just suck it up and stay together; I could never do that.

Yes, some good changes do come out of divorce and none of those people will understand how tough it can be to get anything you want out of a settlement. On the bright side, going through all of that stuff probably makes us all a little more selective when picking our new partners. In my case, if I see the slightest sign of being crazy I run the other way.

[Berner_Faith]

I know some people who know their spouses are not always faithful and they just suck it up and stay together; I could never do that.

I have a good friend like this... he knows full well his wife is not faithful... he works 3 hours away from home and only returns home on the weekends, yet this past summer they bought a plot of land and are building a house. He is a great guy, almost 40 and this relationship is purely financial for them both. They both make over $100k a year and they are content living their lives this way. They go to special events together to have that social stigma, but there is little love in their relationship.

Some people just get stuck in what they have and think oh well... call it old fashion or what not...it is not for me.

As for the friends things... I find that a lot of the time when a separation or divorce happens, the men usually follow where their wives go... lets face it...most women thrive on drama and most of the time divorce is drama and most men just want to make their lady happy so they go where the wife goes. Obviously there are exceptions, but like others, I have way more guy friends than I do girlfriends... and I can say 100% of the people I consider friends, are a lot older than me.

You just have to find those friends who are true friends, no matter what life throws your way... it is often those unlikely friends that end up being your best friends.

[hadenough]

^ completely agree Teddie ^ and you'll see some of the folks that think it will not happen to them - yeahhh right. Let them keep that dream alive.

I also know people who are not faithful and barely ever sleep in the same bed. It's sad that people decide to stay in situations like that. I'd rather feel alone by myself, than alone 'with' someone. And what you said re: picking up on red flags or "crazy" - I understand that too. After knowing what it's like to be in the 'wrong' relationship (and for years), I definitely won't be settling for anyone that is problematic, or brings drama into my life.

Anyway, it's always nice to hear that it is possible to meet the right person and often it is, just by chance.

As Dr. Phil says "The only thing worse than being in a bad relationship for (ie) 5 years, is being in it for 5 years and 1 day, 1 hour, 1 minute more."

[arabian]

I am very fortunate to have some wonderful friends who have stood by me throughout my divorce. Two of these friends are married and all four of them go out of their way to ensure I am included in social events. I do my best to be a good friend by house/dog sitting on a regular basis. I know they appreciate it as they travel frequently.

If your friendship is sincere they would not be treating you differently than when you were married. It is simply rude. You are hurt by their not including you in social events now. In a few years or sooner, after you have established new friendships, you will realize these people weren't true friends. You will move on and find higher quality people to spend your time with.

Don't let lousy acquaintances chip away at your self esteem.