Family Responsibility Office - Serious Mistakes

[AtALoss]

Sounds like she is trying to milk you anyway she can. Hold your ground do what you have to. what FRO and your lawyer is saying is on track. So keep doing what you are. It seems to me that really she should be the one who needs to be worried. Her behavoir is what will get her in court as agrivating as it is let her go and be sure your lawyer will be raising this all to the judge.

[karmaseeker]

Thanks AtAloss, milking is what it is for sure. I only hope a judge see's through her poor me demeanor to see the money grabbing *bleep* she really is.

[NBDad]

We can't pay table amount because FRO won't let us. It isn't written anywhere so they can only go with what number is written on the seperation agreement. So they are refusing to take the money and refusing to giver her any more than 1,000 because that is the only actual number written in the agreement (under something that says if his income drops he has to pay 1,000 regardless).

So it would be HER responsibility to secure an order to have it increased. Is that Agreement registered with the courts? It must be, otherwise FRO could not enforce it.

She screwed herself...do you have anything in writing from the FRO indicating they are refusing to take more money than the 1000? If not, document WHO you spoke to, dates, times, etc in case it's needed.

You may want to consider sending her the extra money to get to table guidelines and ensuring it's documented (ie. via etransfer, cheque or money order). Otherwise, if I were you I would be banking that extra amount each month just in case you get dinged for arrears.

In regards to expenses...pay NOTHING without a receipt. Once she provides a receipt, you pay within 30 days at pro-rata amount. If your current order doesn't state that, get it fixed

[karmaseeker]

The agreement isn't registered with the courts. It is 3 typed pieces of paper photocopied and foolishly signed with one witness. There is nothing in the document accept 1 line about access, equalization of property, and a hole bunch of crap that shouldn't even be there.

We've been pushing for an amended agreement for well over a year. She wont agree to anything.

The entire document needs to be binned and started from scratch. Awaiting case conference date.

Lawyer is going to get in touch with fro.

We can't pay her direct or he will be fined $100 from FRO.

[mystic]

Fro they are a joke, my ex and I had nothing to do with them, we went to court payments to me were made by him with checks, as soon as i deposited the check he gave me he called saying fro garnished his wages, I was furious they sent me the check with in days which I returned to my ex, but they told my ex they could not give it back paper work from both of us was to be filled out and sent to them first, then found out they were going to garnish my wages, took days to get it sorted out. Now my boyfriend is going through bull with them, his past employer was deducting the support payments from his check but not submitting it to fro, so they came after my boyfriend, it went to court and the employer was to pay, but they still haven't now they have threaten to take away his past port and drivers license. I have never seen an organization so incompetent. your always speaking to someone different and they obviously don't know how to communicate with each other.

[AtALoss]

I am taking a guess as to how FRO got involved in the first place... is it possible that with the court or lawyer sent the order for the support direct to FRO. If you both agree and do not wish to have them involved you must BOTH sign and send in the withdrawl form. Call in a couple of weeks of mailing to at least make sure they have it. Send again if need be and keep calling. Also another thing that FRO does not let known too much is that you have a Case Owner/worker assigned specifically to your file. You have the right to speak with this individual and they are (at least i am told)They are required to call you back with in 48hrs. (you will likely have to call more than once)

I am a certified payroll admin and one of the things that was drilled into my head was that above anything else I am to comply with any orders for support as a first priority no ifs ands or butts. failure to do so is an automatis minimum $5000 fine to me personally. Not worth the chance and find it rediculous that this person went that far. But goes to show how quickly a situation like this can get out of hand.

So now you boyfriend is being threatened with his licence and passport being revoked. Often this may come with a bench warrent for his arrest. These measures sould not be occuring until one is in arrears. I realise that they had him falsely there. May be a matter of the paperwork catching up. Were you given a copy of the order or endorsement from the judge stating the reversal? Again fax it yourself to FRO as above.

Sounds like some pretty serious complaints and IF there is no current motion pending the Ombudsman, Andre Marin may be able to help. He is then able to intervene with administrative errors (but not issues of a legal nature or pending action)

If you are not able to make it thrrough to your caseworkers PM me and I can give you a few other contact names and numbers to call. As well you can also talk to you MP/MPP to have them make a ministerial inquiry on your behalf. Even if you or they feel that none of them can help I feel it high time that our Govt officals need to be told what is truely going on at FRO, they need to here our issues.

[mystic]

I live on the other side of Toronto, my ex lives in one town I live 6 minutes away in another. The first time we went to court we went and the decision was he would pay support to me directly, we heard horror stories about FRO, a few years later we went back to court but in my area, I filed for more support, because we hadn't said anything they just assumed it was through FRO we didn't find out until my ex had his garnished. But we finally got the resolved, but what amazed me was how fast they could screw things up the people that never had used them in the first place.

My boyfriend was a truck driver for a mom and pops company he was finally caught up in his support so he thought. He had mentioned one time how his employer was moving to a brand new house and new cars were bought, he never thought anything of it until he got a letter from FRO stating he was thousands of dollars behind. His employer wasn't submitting the money. So he had to quit he took them to court,and he represented himself and won, they now had to pay the money back. well that was months ago and my boyfriend just received notice that his passport and license would be suspended. My boyfriend's ex left him and took everything, he left with his guitar and fishing gear and clothes and a bit of furniture, and never went after her for anything, she was well off with a well off family, he has nothing, and it just annoys me that women will go after blood. I am divorced I didn't take my ex to the cleaners and he has a well paying job my boyfriend was off for over a year after working for this mom and pops company.
my boyfriend has been representing himself in court against his ex and FRO and has won all his cases, but it just never seems to end, he never seems to get a break.

[mystic]

also what I don't understand is how they can say my boyfriend is responsible. He was getting his pay with the amount already deducted which was to be directed to FRO by the employer, my boyfriend had no access to his pay to pocket it himself. When my boyfriend asked why they were not going after them the ones who have the money, they said it wasn't worth it to them financially to go after them, but was to go after my boyfriend. The reason my boyfriend won his case was he made the guy for Fro look like an idiot and the judge saw that. Now he is still dealing with their stupidity, also he found out his ex hasn't informed Fro that their daughter who is 18 for a year now is no longer in school but working. I could go on and on, but it just gets me so angry. anyway thank you so much for replying. I will be back

[Mess]

Mystic it looks like you expect the FRO to have a crystal ball.

Your bf had plenty of opportunity to set up his own payments with the FRO, he didn't, so they set up the garnishee AFTER he was in arrears. They had no idea the employer was ripping off your bf. The court order is against the bf, not the employer, the theft was done by the employer.

The daughter is 18 and not in school, this is the FRO's doing? How exactly? They enforce court orders, they don't follow children around to make sure they are in school. It's your bf's responsibility to follow up and get the court order changed. Breaking news, no on is going to do it for him.

The FRO makes plenty of mistakes but your bf made a ton and he has to take responsibilty for his own mistakes and stop blaming.

[mystic]

Even if they had a crystal ball they wouldn't know how to use it. yes he made some mistakes, but when proof of his payments were up to date they ignored it. He had all the proof he needed in court and won, and yet Fro is still going after him. He doesn't see his daughter due to his ex by the way, shouldn't that have been her responsibility to let Fro know or better yet her ex? I am just happy I am not dealing with them. Fro was in court when it was stated that his former boss was now responsible to pay that money back. And why if Fro wasn't receiving the money did they not inform my boyfriend sooner, being his boss was to be deducting and sending it to Fro. It wasn't until he was so deep that Fro informed him, so he got what his boss said he submitted and Fro sent theirs and they didn't match. for 4 years months here and there were missed. Boyfriend did pay was up to date, his boss is responsible but instead of Fro going after the boss who has a business and the money they go after the person who is struggling financially and expects him to pay what he has already paid.make sense?

[NBDad]

It's up to your boyfriend to get the monies owed by the boss and then have it directed to the FRO and/or get confirmation that FRO has received the monies from the boss. The boss essentially committed theft/fraud, but it's still your boyfriend's responsibility to clean it up unfortunately.

Your boyfriend STILL OWES FRO THAT MONEY. The boss is responsible to pay it back, but until it is, it's still arrears against your boyfriend.

You need to either contact FRO directly and see what can be done, a voluntary repayment schedule should suffice given the circumstances you describe. But you ALSO need to get moving on having the old boss pay back the monies he stole. You probably need a good lawyer to help you with the seizure of assets/etc if the monies are not paid.

If the daughter is 18 and working, then you need to apply to the courts (separately from above) to have support terminated. THIS IS NOT DONE AUTOMATICALLY. As with EVERYTHING else with the legal system, you don't get what you don't ask for.

Proper procedure would be to get the forms for voluntary withdrawal from FRO , fill them out and submit to his ex for her signature. IF she refuses or does not respond THEN file a motion with the court request the child's Income Tax information and/or proof of enrollment in post secondary to determine if support should be terminated.

At that point you should ALSO ask for costs, as well as for any payments made between the date you sent her the voluntary withdrawal forms and the date of the court hearing be retroactively applied to the arrears owing.

After you get THAT done, you file THAT order with FRO, and simply deal with the arrears. (Alternately you can seek to have the arrears reduced given the child is now legally an adult and it's arguably a wealth transfer at this point to the mother). You COULD also try and negotiate and indicate that the arrears owing be put into trust for the child should she wish to pursue post secondary.

There's a LOT of steps here, I would recommend you seek legal counsel to help you through the process.

[Kenny]

Family Responsibility Office - Serious Mistake UPDATE

The FRO refused to acknowledge they made a mistake, canceled the first case and opened up a new case with their ISO unit. They were quick to tell me that they sent a garnishment order to my military pay office, but I can't get them to acknowledge that they stopped it, although I believe it has.

Now I have a new file number as the receiver, but since my Ex lives in New Brunswick and absolutely still refused to obey the court order or pay child support in any amount, the FRO said it will be several weeks to months before my Ex will be forced to financially contribute to the kids.

Thanks for all your replies to my original post.

Ken

[AtALoss]

Hi Kenny,
Regarding the support that you have paid on previously were you send a Stop Garnishee from the Justice Dept? If this has been acknowledged by them and FRo they should have sent to any deduction sources. As well you should have recieved a copy of each and every one that was sent to who ever as well. Along with the new order this is proof as well to FRO to stop. Search out thier web page for the contact info. You can also get a summary if you want to call it that giving all the details of any garnishees that were imposed upon you. You can also take this to employers as proof to stop if there is anything coming off you some where.
Now for the order giving you support Keep faxing etc FRO the order until they finally have it on thier records. If you send enough to them they cannot claim they lost it or the like. You retort I sent you X copies of it? FRO is as slow as snot in doing anything regrettably. You can also enlist the help of the Ombudsman and you MP/MPP.

[Kenny]

AtALoss: Thanks for you reply. The support obligation I paid previously (2000-2006) was stopped by FSOS New Brunswick and I do have an email to that effect as well my pay office has that on file. The FRO was never involved in my child support issues prior to my moving to Ottawa in 2006.

As far as the current garnishment order from FRO, I will positively know whether it was stopped or not this week. If not, I will take decisive action with my pay authorities and the FRO.

Blogs, forums and internet news reports are flooded with people who were victims of the FRO mistakenly taking money from them. I am very much hoping that I do not have to make this into a political issue, even though the whole FRO organization is already.

Thanks again for your advice.

Ken

[AtALoss]

Hi again Kenny,
Hopefully you will be able to get you issues resolved soon with FRO. All I have to say to everyone is that you have to be extremely diligent with them. As things are at present that is the only way to handle them. I i say this to both recipients and payors. It is an unfortunate situation for all. Until things get cleaned up...well. In the meantime you and all have a right to full disclosure on your situations.
My spouse is curently sueing the Crown over his issues and we have spent the past 5 yrs talking to Harper on dowm to our locals to raise awareness to this problem. It is just unfortunate that we have to go to the lengths of sueing. Our lawyer estimates that there are over 27,500 in our boat. I estimate that that number is much higher. Right now we are in the midst of the back and forth of the process against the crown while we wait for the date to be called. It is our hope that through this that there will be an overhaul to this process to make it better. There are many other issues socially that we want addresssed to but on won't go on for ever.