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  • 4 way meetings with lawyers ?

    In process of do it ourself divorce with lawyers looking over things from a distance (well in my case). Sep. statements being worked on then both documents being reviewed by our lawyers. The ex suggests that we have then a meeting with both of us and our lawyers to settle things. No real issues apart from some hidden RRSPs of my ex's which she is being conservative with the truth on her sep. statement.

    My question is for those who have had experience of this process. Can due process be between lawyers comparing notes on sep. statements to come up with final sep. agreement or do we indeed have to sit round a table (all 4 of us) and thrash it out. I have not seen my ex for a year and a half and prefer it that way as I am working on detaching and moving on etc.

    I know this is business, just wonder what others here think.

    Thanks.
    Last edited by Mess; 11-27-2012, 09:06 PM.

  • #2
    All questions are good ones, I think this may be any easy one?? Your seperation agreement is yours to make in any fashion that works for both of you. In the end, if you get to an agreeement that you both buy into you are far ahead of the pack!!! As long as you meet some basic minimums say CS amounts if you have children. (you state the lawyers are there so you have the ILA that helps seal your deal. Then it would be the task of registering the documnet with the court (I believe - which makes it enforcable??)
    Last edited by ddol1; 11-27-2012, 09:36 PM.

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    • #3
      My experience was that 4-way meeting was a total waste of time and money. My ex agreed to a whole pile things at the meeting and then changed his mind the next day. All that came out of the meeting was increased animosity. Lawyers make money when this happens.

      I believe that many people seem to get more accomplished if they go it alone, work out the agreement with each other, then go for ILA and meet again if there are any issues remaining. I strongly believe that the more you involve other people in your divorce the messier it gets. Keep it clean - keep it between the two of you as much as possible.

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      • #4
        I agree and I wish with all my heart that this were true in my case, but remember it takes two working in good faith to arrive somewhere in the midddle.

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        • #5
          My ex agreed to a whole pile things at the meeting and then changed his mind the next day.
          If you agree then sign minutes of settlement. If you don't have minutes of settlement then you likely did not agree.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by OrleansLawyer View Post
            If you agree then sign minutes of settlement. If you don't have minutes of settlement then you likely did not agree.
            As an additional point, four way meetings can be very helpful/productive sessions IF the outcome of the meeting results in signed minutes of settlement on the same day/AT THE END OF THE MEETING. Like OrleansLawyer said, if no minutes of settlement were produced then no formal agreement was reached on the issues in contention.

            Four way meetings should be set up with the intention/goal to produce minutes of the settlement signed by both parties at the end of it. If that's not the case, then yes, (IMO) you're simply paying for your lawyer to have a very expensive chat with you and the other party both in the room.

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            • #7
              I think the four-way meeting could be good if both parties are willing to resolve the issues. I wouldn't fight over nickles and dimes. In the end, you have to compare the cost vs. benefits of achieving your goals. Go prepared to make concessions and expect nothing in return.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Henry View Post
                In process of do it ourself divorce with lawyers looking over things from a distance (well in my case). Sep. statements being worked on then both documents being reviewed by our lawyers. The ex suggests that we have then a meeting with both of us and our lawyers to settle things. No real issues apart from some hidden RRSPs of my ex's which she is being conservative with the truth on her sep. statement.

                My question is for those who have had experience of this process. Can due process be between lawyers comparing notes on sep. statements to come up with final sep. agreement or do we indeed have to sit round a table (all 4 of us) and thrash it out. I have not seen my ex for a year and a half and prefer it that way as I am working on detaching and moving on etc.

                I know this is business, just wonder what others here think.

                Thanks.
                I would suggest you go to the sit down.

                That way any last minute things that come up can be finalized.

                One thing I noticed going through it all is that last minute things would come up, and you're almost forced to make a decision on the spot.

                Not that you're forced, but in the interest of moving things along I would sometimes agree to things that I didn't think out carefully first.

                So if possible, have as much of a complete/thorough discussion/email about all the details first (in order to keep the meeting brief and relatively cost minimal).

                Make sure you give yourself enough credit to demand to not agree to any one thing that may come up as a surprise to you. Request 24 hours to think it over if need be.

                Not to say that you should abuse that privilage either....

                But all things considered, I would bet it to be a constructive meeting that helps expediate the matter. Assuming you and yor ex aren't playing games.

                Think of it at formal mediation with each party having their legal interests protected during the process.

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                • #9
                  being bled by one of these leeches is bad enuff but four please!

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by fubar99 View Post
                    being bled by one of these leeches is bad enuff but four please!
                    A "four way meeting" is:

                    Party A
                    Party A's Counsel and/or Lawyer and/or Barrister and Solicitor
                    Party B
                    Party B's Counsel and/or Lawyer and/or Barrister and Solicitor

                    That adds up to 4 people. Hence the name "4-way meeting". Not because there are 4 lawyers meeting.

                    Good Luck!
                    Tayken

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by arabian View Post
                      My experience was that 4-way meeting was a total waste of time and money. All that came out of the meeting was increased animosity. Lawyers make money when this happens.
                      This can be very true. Basically they will call and come to the meeting, dictate what they want and your lawyer will have to defend off their acusations, threats, and demands. Then your lawyer will turn to them and do the same, saying this is what my client wants and what is best for my client, what the law will allow, etc, etc. Plus no agenda and time limit set on topics to discuss before the meeting is an open $$$$ for lawyers to collect. Be well planned and prepared before hand.

                      Basically it is the same as mediation but there is no mediator, just two lawyers that will do everything to fight for their clients wants and demands.

                      Better way to do it is email your ex all the topic issues that need to be addressed (eg: asset split, house split, child custody, support, etc). Once that list is created both parties should individually come up with their solution/stance to the list and then sit down together and present it to each other. If both parties are too far apart, hire a mediator/arbitrator (thus the cost can be shared unlike lawyers who each have to pay individually) to help both parties come to agreement. Some issues might be crossed off the list right off the bat because you agree.

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                      • #12
                        thanx for the heads up Tayken while not personally envolved I have friends who have been raped and pillaged by the legal system, hence my lack of respect for any of these leeches envolved with it.........

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                        • #13
                          Thank you all so much for your input and opinions. No huge issues on our case, no fighting as such just me standing my ground in the face of my rather alpha ex who would like things her own way, namely entering $8K on her financial statement instead of the much higher figure that is should have been, which I have documentation of. Yes I have kept a polite but firm email connection with her asking her to provide accurate statement which can be proved/ documented. This I know will be difficult for her to do.

                          Also for some reason she wants half of todays value of the house out, rather than half of its value on sep. date. She walked out leaving me , two children and the dog. I struggled to keep the place going for daughters, lawyer informed me that she could not force the sale due to one of children being underage. When mothers leave their children behind one knows those midlife crazies are not far away. So it proved, with the person I had known happily for 30 years changing out of all recognition, even to (some) family and collegues.

                          Anyway, time has passed and the children are fine and I am detaching and moving on nicely I think. This is the reason that I do not want to sit and discuss proceedure with the meter running for the lawers which was well noted in one or two of your replies.

                          I intend to inform myself and prepare as much as possible, plus deal with the ex instead of her rather exitable lawyer, at least till I have to. My ideal remains that all prep work is done and lawyers review it, they can chat back and forth if needed, we sign off and hopefully that is that. One of the benefits of leaving this for a couple of years to finalize is that one is more detached from the drama and hurt and as a result is better able to be objective to get the job done.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Henry View Post
                            entering $8K on her financial statement instead of the much higher figure that is should have been,
                            This it typical in negotiation, ask for the world, then try to settle for more then they are entitled too and come ahead. This is where you need to decide, is it worth fighting, can you prove using the law she is wrong and something else is right.

                            Originally posted by Henry View Post
                            she wants half of todays value of the house out, rather than half of its value on sep. date. She walked out leaving me,

                            Again, she is asking for the world. Show factual evidence of what money you have put in the house since seperation and tell her she owes you half of that amount and then you will split the house cost 50/50. If she doesn't then offer her an alternative of what you calculate is reasonable, say 60/40 or whatever the math works out too. It is still her house too (I assume she is on the mortgage or lived there long enough for it to become the materimonal home) and she is entitled to half of the sale price (whatever that date is) but is also responsible for upkeep too.



                            Originally posted by Henry View Post
                            I intend to inform myself and prepare as much as possible, plus deal with the ex instead of her rather exitable lawyer, at least till I have to. My ideal remains that all prep work is done and lawyers review it, they can chat back and forth if needed
                            If she won't deal with you her lawyer will have to and it will cost her more $$. Eitehr way know your facts and stick to your guns and negotiate/compromise as you feel comfortable. Contact your lawyer when you need answers and facts clarified and use to review as you said. Cheapest way to do it.

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