If the guy is a "dependent" on Ontario Works did he not have a social worker to assist him with his court matters? I would have thought that a "dependent" would have assistance in filing and completing income tax returns.
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Ex caught perjurying himself after perging his contempt
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Originally posted by Tayken View PostThat is if you have a negative advocate solicitor who has no cogent and relevant evidence other than hearsay from their client to statements of belief.
Lawyer A - My client was a stay at home parent!!!
Lawyer B - Your honour, attached to my client's affidavit in schedule X is a copy of the Applicant's tax filings between the years x through y. During the course of the marriage the Applicant had a gross income of x,xxx,xxxx which averages to xxx,xxxx income a year. Furthermore, your honour, you will note that I provided my friend a copy of this cogent and relevent evidence to her clients "stay at home parent income" on Day/month/year, XX days prior to the hearing of this motion and XX days prior to the filing materials as clearly indicated in my letter and receipt of service for this evidence is also attached.
It doesn't happen enough. Often, a client will lie so much to the lawyer that they are stuck.
Lawyer B is pretty much the scenario i am referring to i.e. I sent the support cheuques, the ex's first lawyer sent a letter acknowledging the cheques and informing that they had been forwarded to her client, in her affidavit the ex claimed that I had not paid anything for the very months she had already received the cheques for. I provided her new lawyer with the evidence from the previous lawyer she goes "i dont care, thats not my name on the letter" went in and lied.
another time I had faxed the financial disclosure days before the hearing to the opposing lawyer, she stands up in court and goes, he just faxed it in today (trying to make me look bad) I open my bag and hand over the fax confirmation showing a prior date to the judge. the judge didnt give squat.
just two of many many examples how the lawyer is knowingly lying.
in addition while being on Legal Aid, i dont understand why would she try further pitch the parties against each other, i have noticed that several times too. i dont think i am going to complain to LSUC or any thing since i dont want to pick more fights, but i think disciplining a lawyer should also be under a Judge's jurisdiction
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Originally posted by sahibjee View PostLawyer B is pretty much the scenario i am referring to i.e. I sent the support cheuques, the ex's first lawyer sent a letter acknowledging the cheques and informing that they had been forwarded to her client, in her affidavit the ex claimed that I had not paid anything for the very months she had already received the cheques for. I provided her new lawyer with the evidence from the previous lawyer she goes "i dont care, thats not my name on the letter" went in and lied.
another time I had faxed the financial disclosure days before the hearing to the opposing lawyer, she stands up in court and goes, he just faxed it in today (trying to make me look bad) I open my bag and hand over the fax confirmation showing a prior date to the judge. the judge didnt give squat.
just two of many many examples how the lawyer is knowingly lying.
in addition while being on Legal Aid, i dont understand why would she try further pitch the parties against each other, i have noticed that several times too. i dont think i am going to complain to LSUC or any thing since i dont want to pick more fights, but i think disciplining a lawyer should also be under a Judge's jurisdiction
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Originally posted by murphyslaw View PostLets pretend Im a lawyer,and I like money It would be in my interest to get my legal aid client into a marathon legal case because it would guarantee further fees for me in the future.Lets say my client gets married or gets a good job-who will they turn to for all the legal help that they now definitely need?Why me the high conflict lawyer!Why stop now ?
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Well my next action will be a second contempt order
The respondent has not followed the following court orders
A)The respondent shall immediately advise the applicant in writing of any change in his financial circumstances, including any change in his income or income source.
B)The respondent shall, no later than June 30 of each year in which the Child is a child within the meaning of the Child Support Guidelines, provide the applicant with, for the most recent taxation year, a copy of the respondent’s personal income tax return, including any materials filed with the return, and notice of assessment and any notice of reassessment.
Evidence
1)If the Respondent is not on social assistance, he did not notified me.
2)If the Respondent is on social assistance he did not enter any amount on line 145 of his tax return. If he was not required to, the respondent chose not to inform me of any social assistance payments, did not give me any documents relating to those payments, or inform me of the total of those payments.
3)The Respondent entered his social assistant payments in his 2010 taxes. Such behavior would suggest he was told to place the payments in his tax return.
4)The respondent failed to put other items in his taxes such as interest payments. It is documented in his notice of assessments from 2007 and 2008 in which it specifically states for him to enter these amounts in his 2011 tax returns. I have no idea if the respondent has failed to put other amounts in his tax returns.
5) Again the respondent has failed to follow court orders. First he failed to submit taxes and now has failed to disclose income classified under the Federal Child Support Guidelines, failed to hand in income documentation related to those payments, or has failed to notify me of a change in income.
6)The Respondents obligations under the Federal Child Support Guidelines, his obligations under the terms of the final order marked April 16 2011, and his obligation of his purge of contempt have not been met.
Federal Child Support Guidelines
Determination of annual income
15 (1) Subject to subsection (2), a parent's annual income is determined by the court in accordance with Sections 16 to 20.
Calculation of annual income
16 Subject to Sections 17 to 20, a parent's annual income is determined using the sources of income set out under the heading "(Total Income)" in the T1 General form issued by the Canada Revenue Agency and is adjusted in accordance with Schedule III.
Schedule III: Sections 1 to 13
Schedule III of the Federal Child Support Guidelines sets out a list of adjustments to a spouse's annual income. These adjustments ensure that the child support amount is calculated based on actual available income.
SECTION 4: SOCIAL ASSISTANCE
Under s. 4 of Schedule III to the Federal Child Support Guidelines, social assistance is treated as income, but only "the amount attributable to the spouse". This adjustment is required as social assistance is included in line 150 income.
CASE LAW
The case law clearly sets out that social assistance income must be included when calculating income under the Guidelines,[395] but only the social assistance attributable to that spouse.[396]
• [395] See Chambers, supra note 64; Loughran v. Loughran (2000), 182 N.S.R. (2d) 143 (S.C.).
• [396] Chambers, ibid.
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It would be in my interest to get my legal aid client into a marathon legal case because it would guarantee further fees for me in the future.Lets say my client gets married or gets a good job-who will they turn to for all the legal help that they now definitely need?Why me the high conflict lawyer!Why stop now ?
1 - Personal morals;
2 - Reputation;
3 - Professionally required ethics;
4 - Unhelpful to everyone involved;
5 - Likelihood of running out of legal aid hours; and
6 - Legal aid rate is, in many cases, below 50% of a lawyer's billable rate.
Current legal aid rates: Legal Aid Ontario: Newsroom
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I am lucky to have a good ethical logical lawyer who is very matter of fact but lets be honest -there is many unscrupulous less talented lawyers out there, who dont have the skill to work properly.Instead use unsavoury methods of keeping their income flowing.You list all the reasons to be professional but like any profession ,there will always be bad eggs.
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"Lawyers cannot lie to the court. Doing so opens them to being reported to the law society."
^ that is funny.. I've seen 3 lawyers LIE in court. Verbally/Written. LIES
I won't even go into what I think of the LSUC, except to say that their mantra "Let there be Right" (or something like that) is total bs, IMO/experience.
As for PERJURY: there is no penalty imposed. Everybody knows that people lie in Court and under oath ALL the time. You know what happens to them? NOTHING. Eventually they are deemed to be "vague, evasive, not credible" - lots of polite terms for LIAR.
If lying 15-20 times under oath, during trial (and getting caught in those lies) didn't get the ex thrown in jail, then as far as I'm concerned, there is no real penalty for lying. He and his lawyer *both* lie, rather profusely. They are perfect for eachother and they both look like fools. Now if only they had any 'shame' - Survey Sez... They have NONE.Last edited by hadenough; 09-27-2012, 11:52 PM.
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I was surprised as well during my first foray into family court. I just assumed that when you "swore" an affidavit you were being honest. I was quite shocked.
Very disheartening to find out that lying is allowed in court. There is absolutely penalty.
Also found out that contempt is like a fart. Very rarely does anyone actually get nailed with any sort of substantial fine or sanction. Had I known that I would have saved thousands of dollars early on in my litigation - total waste of money.
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