Moving on....Final Minutes of Settlement (for now)

[arabian]

Doesn't matter what other posters have to say. YOU know, without any doubt, that any involvement of the Women's Shelter in your daughter's life is inappropriate. Shelter does not know that your ex lied about everything and they do not know that you have shared custody ON CONSENT.

[YoungDad23]

IMHO, your ex is likely still scheming and digging for dirt after agreeing to settle. The final order of 50/50, school etc. must have been hard for her to swallow.

Your ex may be cooperating on the surface but if the questions you mentioned D4 was being asked about you and gf being loud and sleeping arrangements at your place happened lately, she is letting them do her dirty work.

Based on everything she lied about and what she put you and D4 through (with her mother's help), I would be shocked if she just rolls over and plays nice going forward.

Keep you guard up!

[stripes]

I was told early on in these forums that there are "no consequences" for false
I'm still not okay with everything that happened .. and I still have official letters of complaint for the OCL worker and LAO lawyer that I could send out. I'm trying to be forgiving Arabian but of course the wounds are still fresh and I'm still upset about the past few years.

I'm also still irked about our daughter being forced to speak to the person who helped my ex the past few years about .. "violence"..and "moods"? I said no to that....ex admitted allegations were false...ENOUGH .. leave our child alone.

Everyone says not the shelter's fault .... I've sent a letter expressing the fact that all of her allegations were false and that they went ahead even though I did not give consent. They told me to go screw myself.

I will pursue it further if they continue their unqualified violence counseling with my poor daughter. She deserves better. This is "healthcare" and "educational" (the terms used in my order). And I will win .. even if I have to call the LAO guy and/or my lawyer as a witness for hearing her admit to the false allegations. I think that's fair.

Those of you who think I should sit back and let this counselor invade my daughters cognitive faculties more .. I'll never understand your reasoning. But one thing I can guarantee is that if you were in my shoes you would share my opinion.

At the risk of sounding like broken record, the issue of counselling is between you and Mom, not you and the shelter. They are not a party to any agreement with you concerning Kid. The services they are providing are within their mandate and within the law. These are not medical or educational services within any commonly accepted use of those terms. There are no signs that Kid is being harmed. There is no sign that this counselling, whatever form it takes, is "invading Kid's cognitive faculties". And I doubt they are sending you letters telling you to screw off, bugger off, take a hike - more like "Thank you for your inquiry. Your consent is not required for activity xyz. Sincerely ...").

Really, this isn't about you. Shelters get tons of emails and calls every day from ex-partners of clients who want the shelter to do this, don't do that, I demand to see my wife/girlfriend/kid, she's lying and I have proof, you can't keep me from my children, you're indoctrinating my family, you have to listen to my side, don't believe her, I never gave permission, etc etc etc. Unless an actual threat of violence is involved, shelters will respond to all those inquiries the same way they respond to yours. They are not in the business of listening to one person's story, listening to the other person's story, and deciding who they choose to believe.

However, if you really want to effect some change in policy rather than beating your head against a brick wall, you should be contacting the shelter's board of directors, not the staff. The BoD sets policy, and their contact information should be easy to find.

[LovingFather32]

I asked for that Mandate a while ago. If you provide good info....could you reference where dad's have no say in counselling and mom's are granted automatic sole decision making upon visits to shelters?

I know I've requested this mandate stating the above before .. could you please provide it? That would be super awesome.

The CTR did in fact send e a letter basically telling me to take a hike.

D4 is expressing that the sessions are uncomfortable. And ex IS stating there are behaviors in her home.

Mom's in the wrong for bringing her and shelter's in the wrong for providing it without my involvement or consent. Especially a violence counselor in the absence of any violence (even admitted by ex).

No matter how the web is spun...its wrong. They should have taken my letter more seriously and/or at least offered to explain more.

I like your idea about contacting the shelter's board of directors or Tayken's idea of contacting the sponsors to show where all that money is going. I'm not sure what Im going to do at this point.

[PeacefulMoments]

The mediated settlement is very recent. Are you sure D4 is still attending the sessions? All this angst may be for naught. I'm a little on the fence about whether the sessions are required to have consent by both parents, don't really know enough about the actual sessions to judge if they would be considered actual counseling. Just think it would be less stressful to wait and see if sessions have stopped than be upset over what is being said/asked during sessions.

If mom is being so co-operative now, try a neutral email asking if sessions are over if you are still concerned.

I am truly not trying to minimize your concerns, I understand to a point, just try not get to worked up over it. It's likely over now as long as the settlement is final and signed. There is really no more need for the group if in fact the sessions were just part of a custody strategy by mom as you believe.

[stripes]

Okay, since you asked, here's one example:

From the Alberta Council of Women's Shelters:

The foremost purpose of emergency shelters is to provide a safe place for women and children escaping domestic violence. The secondary goal of emergency shelters is to support women and children in accessing the external and internal resources needed to live a violence-free life.

(https://www.acws.ca/sites/default/fi...tionReport.pdf)

So there you go: their mandate is not to investigate who is or isn't a "real" victim of violence or to assist ex-spouses with their parenting issues. If someone turns up and says that they have experienced or are at risk of experiencing domestic violence, the shelter is mandated to provide them and their children with safety and resources. That's it.

If you believe Mom is making bad parenting choices, then you work it out with her. If you believe the shelter is not adhering to their mandate, take it up with the Board.

[LovingFather32]

We're in Ontario. Alberta is of no use to me.

I wonder what the shelter would think if they heard my ex confess to all her allegations being false.

[rockscan]

LF32, two years ago my partners oldest told him her therapist said she should stop speaking to him (it was worded differently but thats the jist). My partner lost his mind and said something to his ex. He wasnt paying for the sessions so he should shut up was her answer. Kid ended up not seeing the therapist a few months later as her schedule changed and she had no time.

I would suggest you sit still for a week or so, see what your ex's response and go from there. D4 starts school the week after next yes? Its full day yes? Should ex take her out of school for these sessions or have them happen after school then go from there.

Right now fighting her (and this forum) is wasting your energy. Yes it was malicious ill advised and wrong but thats the past. We all need to focus on the future.

[stripes]

We're in Ontario. Alberta is of no use to me.

I wonder what the shelter would think if they heard my ex confess to all her allegations being false.

Suggestion: go to google.com and type in "mandate domestic violence shelter Ontario".

[Berner_Faith]

We're in Ontario. Alberta is of no use to me.

I wonder what the shelter would think if they heard my ex confess to all her allegations being false.

This is from a London Shelter... Home - Women's Community House

WCH has been providing support to women in distress since 1978. Through a variety of confidential programs and emergency facilities, we’ve assisted more than 24,000 women and children with privacy, shelter and counseling in a time of physical and emotional crisis. Abuse hurts individuals and destroys families. Our mission is to help women and their children recover their lives in a non-judgmental environment with a vision of ending women abuse and its impact on families and communities, collaborating with other community efforts to assist men with their own healing journey.

Finding Safety

Q: Will my partner be able to find me?
A: Women’s Community House has a lot of built-in security measures and safety practices in place to ensure your safety. For example, staff will not talk to anyone without your permission. We also have trained staff and community partners, secure facilities and protocols to make sure you will not be harassed by your partner.


Q: What’s a safety plan?
A: Safety plans involve identifying specific action steps to increase your safety and helps to prepare you in advance for the possibility of further violence. We can help you develop a safety plan.


Q: How safe will my children and I be at the shelter?
A: Our shelters are secured by steel doors and power locks and are monitored by security cameras. Staff members, residents and visitors are all screened before being allowed inside. You will be in a secure facility and have access to trained staff and volunteers. Only those people with whom you want contact with will be allowed to see or speak to you.

Mothers and Children Living Peaceful Lives

The Mothers and Children Living Peaceful Lives program (formerly The Community Group Program for Children Exposed to Woman Abuse) provides an opportunity for children to begin to understand the abuse that happened in their family. Groups are offered for children aged 5-16, are free of charge, and are held in safe, accessible locations. Transportation and healthy snacks are included. Moms also have the opportunity to explore and reflect on how to support their children’s healing. For information or to register for these groups, please call 519-642-3003 ext. 3307 or e-mail cgp@shelterlondon.org. You may also register for these groups by clicking here and completing and submitting the form.

The shelter is NOT going to provide you any information, regardless of you being the father. Again, it is not just against you, this is their policy and this is how they protect women.

[LovingFather32]

I have ... and found nothing saying dads have zero rights when a mom visits shelters. Thats why I asked you to since you're stating these as facts.

I'm not saying you're wrong Stripes ... I'd just love to see where it says this. Wishy Washy "resource" terms are not what Im looking for. "Mental Health Intervention for young children", etc. No need for Dad's consent, etc.

[LovingFather32]

This is from a London Shelter... Home - Women's Community House







The shelter is NOT going to provide you any information, regardless of you being the father. Again, it is not just against you, this is their policy and this is how they protect women.

This is GROUPS. I'm talking about one-on-one mental health intervention for children who witness violence...... when it's been proven in court (and admitted by ex)..that it didnt occur).

Anyways... I have an order saying its not allowed.....so there's really no discussion. Its not allowed. Ill see if she's still going...if so, I'll break the order out and show what they're doing is against the law. I'll go fro there.

Next ..

[Berner_Faith]

I have ... and found nothing saying dads have zero rights when a mom visits shelters. Thats why I asked you to since you're stating these as facts.

I'm not saying you're wrong Stripes ... I'd just love to see where it says this. Wishy Washy "resource" terms are not what Im looking for. "Mental Health Intervention for young children", etc. No need for Dad's consent, etc.

So have you found anything that specifically states shelters must get Dad's consent? Would that not go directly against their policy about not releasing information about their clients?

[Berner_Faith]

This is GROUPS. I'm talking about one-on-one mental health intervention for children who witness violence...... when it's been proven in court (and admitted by ex)..that it didnt occur).

Anyways... I have an order saying its not allowed.....so there's really no discussion. Its not allowed. Ill see if she;s still going....then break the order out.

Next ..

You have an order that the daughter can't attend programs that specifically names the shelter or you have an order that counseling must be agreed too? Totally different things, because the shelter has stated they are not providing counseling have they not?

[LovingFather32]

So have you found anything that specifically states shelters must get Dad's consent? Would that not go directly against their policy about not releasing information about their clients?

If you want a better description of the laws you should ask Tayken if these unqualified ad hoc counselors are in the right here. Would you respect his opinion?

Are they allowed to go against court orders as well?