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  • ^interesting point and it certainly wouldn't hurt to have the grandparent(s) try to contact the mother. However, I believe the onus would be on the mother to prove she tried to facilitate a continued relationship with relatives. One would think that the mother would also have to show that she would encourage a relationship with the father of the child. We all know that isn't happening as she refuses access to the father.

    I believe the mother is playing right into LF32's hands in her continued stubbornness and refusal to do what is in the best interest of her daughter.

    Comment


    • https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/do...cmVudHMAAAAAAQ

      This has some information on parental alienation which might be of interest.

      Comment


      • The OP isn't remaining "static" on this, their fully aware, both parties are now verbally abusive to each other (arguing), dopers and boozers.

        The shear fact Goldilocks was bleaching show's " OP concern' and was probably traceable to some caretakers notes where she admitted she was a doper/drinker.

        OP tried to get through the process without having Goldilocks admit she had the same issues as LF32.

        Fact 2 is OCL disclosed the facts on it. So no running from that now. (told Golidlocks to bleach no doubt) (tie the date when bleaching was observed to when OCL appeared, the LAO scumbag lawyer wasn't interested in bleaching, being a Mr Hotshot)

        Fact 3 bleaching means the strategy changed from "slam dunk" to preparing for a long fight.

        Does OP love that OCL interim report so much they'll rely on it 100 percent? Because the origional allegations are so watered down to almost being useless.

        Side issue is You can say you were honest on drugs and booze and to prove it willingly did tests, whereas the EX hid her drug use and drinking and only acknowledging months later, when it was going to be found out but still won't do tests. (ask for the tests..she was seen puffing)

        The allegations (because of passing time) can be flipped now.

        The recording and transcript have no value for OP now, so disclosure may be coming. LAO scumbag lawyer is right to have hid it, but it's only.. maybe a bargaining chip now

        Can it be proved LAO scumbag lawyer was purposely using the "tapes" for a delay? or to create a false status quo?....or hide a jurisdiction change?.....because all these items did happen.

        The problem with the "origional allegations" vapourizing when Goldilocks "comes clean" and becomes a honest broker (all of a sudden).....is the insincerity from the get go by the OP. (So that proves the above para.)

        Once the OP finds out the OCL is in the dumpster, the emperor will have no clothes.

        Sooner or later LF32 will hear...that Goldilocks sincerely believed her allegations (this is the cop out) and everything she did she firmly believed she had too.

        I imagine OP will decide which way to go when they see how OCL report/matter is dealt with in the Motion brief (for there Reply)......or after the Motion.

        1) continue to trial or 2) mediate to settlement

        At the Motion there's a huge risk on COSTs to OP.

        To get costs...(best to make a settlement offer) and a note explaining your rejecting the OCL interim report and would enjoy mediation.

        Then OP can roll the dice in Court
        Last edited by MrToronto; 10-09-2014, 10:50 AM.

        Comment


        • Goldilocks is going to have a very difficult time getting anyone to buy her story that "she really did believe D3 was in harms way" with the absence of any police report being filed or allegation of the abuse being made to anyone FORMALLY. When did she believe D3 was in harms way? Time-line is going to backfire on her I'm sure.

          IF she really believed that her daughter was in danger she could have simply gone and stayed at her mother's place. To do anything less would make her a monster - who doesn't remove their child IMMEDIATELY from danger ?

          Comment


          • I think it is entirely possible to infer or imply parental alienation, without stating it explicitly and having to have the higher burden of proof;
            Denial of contact with extended family - highlight amount of contact before and after separation
            Denial of contact with father - highlight involvement in life pre separation, contrast with repeated denials of access for invalid reasons.

            Comment


            • Arabian .. oh my god exactly.

              And Ive said this over and over. She went to police to file a report and they kicked her out saying "Nothing criminal .. No CAS .. No Custody/Access concerns for either party....no restraining order .. just .. nothing

              CAS closed file when she went to police? Huh? What kind of danger was there for the child? I still don't get how shes gotten away with this.

              Also she told OCL that she was scared to leave before this because I told her I'd go get D3.
              Last edited by LovingFather32; 10-09-2014, 11:23 AM.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by MrToronto View Post
                The OP isn't remaining "static" on this, their fully aware, both parties are now verbally abusive to each other (arguing), dopers and boozers.

                The shear fact Goldilocks was bleaching show's " OP concern' and was probably traceable to some caretakers notes where she admitted she was a doper/drinker.

                OP tried to get through the process without having Goldilocks admit she had the same issues as LF32.

                Fact 2 is OCL disclosed the facts on it. So no running from that now. (told Golidlocks to bleach no doubt) (tie the date when bleaching was observed to when OCL appeared, the LAO scumbag lawyer wasn't interested in bleaching, being a Mr Hotshot)

                Fact 3 bleaching means the strategy changed from "slam dunk" to preparing for a long fight.

                Does OP love that OCL interim report so much they'll rely on it 100 percent? Because the origional allegations are so watered down to almost being useless.

                Side issue is You can say you were honest on drugs and booze and to prove it willingly did tests, whereas the EX hid her drug use and drinking and only acknowledging months later, when it was going to be found out but still won't do tests. (ask for the tests..she was seen puffing)

                The allegations (because of passing time) can be flipped now.

                The recording and transcript have no value for OP now, so disclosure may be coming. LAO scumbag lawyer is right to have hid it, but it's only.. maybe a bargaining chip now

                Can it be proved LAO scumbag lawyer was purposely using the "tapes" for a delay? or to create a false status quo?....or hide a jurisdiction change?.....because all these items did happen.

                The problem with the "origional allegations" vapourizing when Goldilocks "comes clean" and becomes a honest broker (all of a sudden).....is the insincerity from the get go by the OP. (So that proves the above para.)

                Once the OP finds out the OCL is in the dumpster, the emperor will have no clothes.

                Sooner or later LF32 will hear...that Goldilocks sincerely believed her allegations (this is the cop out) and everything she did she firmly believed she had too.

                I imagine OP will decide which way to go when they see how OCL report/matter is dealt with in the Motion brief (for there Reply)......or after the Motion.

                1) continue to trial or 2) mediate to settlement

                At the Motion there's a huge risk on COSTs to OP.

                To get costs...(best to make a settlement offer) and a note explaining your rejecting the OCL interim report and would enjoy mediation.

                Then OP can roll the dice in Court
                You bet they were using transcripts to blow everything up then have them self-destruct .. just like inspector gadget instructions. Im guessing the proof is in the pudding here. Non disclosure should be hugely frowned upon here.

                Hair follicle will be brought up in court in a smart way. As soon as OCL came in to picture you're correct, now all of a sudden she drinks and smokes .. interesting. And refuses a drug test.

                Also, all of a sudden now Im not an alcoholic (like she claims in her "answer" .. now its just that it contributes to abusive ways) .. which is inconsistent with her mother's account that when I drank I became talkative and friendly. Right out of OCL's mouth -- Ex says LF32's substance abuse is not problematic .. just contributes to loud arguments. What a switch!!

                For now Mr. T .. Im going for Primary residence at the motion .. ex having every other weekend. She's been too unreasonable for anything else at this point. I need police enforcement to be discussed as well.

                Also, OCL can try and change everything now but we had a witness in the room plus I've recorded it. Not fooling around anymore.
                Last edited by LovingFather32; 10-09-2014, 11:33 AM.

                Comment


                • So what is the timeline?

                  1. Summer 2013 she goes to a counsellor and receives guidance on how best to leave her marriage
                  2. Spring 2014 she goes to police station to file a complaint of spousal abuse (resulted in police closing file)
                  3. Spring 2014 she takes child and disappears to parts unknown (presumably gets public housing and retains a freebie lawyer). Allegations against you at this time were drugs and alcohol to which you responded with a clean test.
                  4. Summer 2014 OCL gets involved and that's when allegations of child sexual abuse arise. CAS closes file.

                  Something like that?

                  Comment


                  • Arabian writes:

                    So what is the timeline?

                    1. Summer 2013 she goes to a counsellor and receives guidance on how best to leave her marriage (Counselor says in order to get home you need counselor. Counselor says you need LAO ---> LAO says you need recordings --> she stages/instigates .. but cant even get a situation to call police.
                    2. Spring 2014 she goes to police station to file a complaint of spousal abuse (resulted in police closing file) .. Yes, and substance abuse (alcoholic) .. Police closed file .. CAS closed file
                    3. Spring 2014 she takes child and disappears to parts unknown (presumably gets public housing and retains a freebie lawyer). Allegations against you at this time were drugs and alcohol (and spousal abuse)to which you responded with a clean test. .. Yes.
                    4. Summer 2014 OCL gets involved and that's when allegations of child sexual abuse arise. CAS closes file. Yes.

                    Something like that?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by good_mom View Post
                      Ok I know they don't want you to call but have they said that the rest of the family can't call?

                      I saying this because the other side will say in court that they never stopped them family calling and use that as a way out.

                      If you don't have anything in writing on this then I would say to Nanny call her to talk to D3 and leave a message stating to call back and why the call. Have coversation and any message left to OP voice mail recorded to back up any claims of what was said.

                      That my thoughts on this.
                      We've repeatedly asked for calls at Easter, her b-day, etc.

                      Ex wont even allow my family to be supervisor's let alone talk to her.

                      My mom actually met with ex few weeks ago just to give her about $400.00 bucks of toys, clothes, winter stuff for D3 from us. Ex did respond to that e-mail .. it had to do with gifts .. of course she will.

                      Ex didn't even bother bringing D3 to see her. Didn't say thank you for the stuff. My mom asked for a telephone call then as well. Nothing. Not even a thank you via e-mail.

                      No calls on my b-day, D3's b-day .. list goes on.

                      Also .. nobody wants false allegations. One phone call could mean a restraining order. They'd have to get one of those phone recorder things.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by DowntroddenDad View Post
                        I think it is entirely possible to infer or imply parental alienation, without stating it explicitly and having to have the higher burden of proof;
                        Denial of contact with extended family - highlight amount of contact before and after separation
                        Denial of contact with father - highlight involvement in life pre separation, contrast with repeated denials of access for invalid reasons.
                        Precisely,

                        This is exactly what we're doing.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by LovingFather32 View Post
                          We've repeatedly asked for calls at Easter, her b-day, etc.

                          Ex wont even allow my family to be supervisor's let alone talk to her.

                          My mom actually met with ex few weeks ago just to give her about $400.00 bucks of toys, clothes, winter stuff for D3 from us. Ex did respond to that e-mail .. it had to do with gifts .. of course she will.

                          Ex didn't even bother bringing D3 to see her. Didn't say thank you for the stuff. My mom asked for a telephone call then as well. Nothing. Not even a thank you via e-mail.

                          No calls on my b-day, D3's b-day .. list goes on.

                          Also .. nobody wants false allegations. One phone call could mean a restraining order. They'd have to get one of those phone recorder things.
                          They wouldn't necessarily need a phone recorder.

                          A log book would be more credible than someone's rememberences and would be more credible in front of a judge.

                          Comment


                          • If you are going for primary and requesting EOW for her, to remain child focused I would suggest an inclusion of a transition schedule as well.

                            Arabians timeline is very clear and should be all in the evidence both sides are submitting. Your lawyer can use the timeline points in her oral arguments at the motion.

                            As the moving party, your lawyer will speak first, then hers, then your lawyer will be able to speak again. The timeline summary captures a lot of the important pieces.

                            Comment


                            • OhMy..

                              Good advice. Thank you

                              Comment


                              • Watering down the origional allegations you would think is the best path to follow.

                                Of course it's up to a Judge to decide on the allegations to move forward.

                                Who are these people? (couples short bio) (LF32's job and education)

                                Why are you here? Seeking interim sole or joint or whatever

                                What is the issue? As per Honourable Justice Tryto Stayawake's Case Conference Endorsement on (date), Ms Goldilocks has made allegations against Mr LF32 of drinking, smoking maurijuana, and verbal abuse.

                                A Consent Order was made at the Conference for interim supervised access.

                                OCL involvement was requested by OP at the Conference, the OCL partway through the assesment called CAS and terminated LF32's access

                                CAS findings were null, OCL then refused to re-establish access on a concern over the parties mutually accepted access supervisor.

                                Are the first 3 questions Judges want answers for. (ignoring the fact the Judge may of read the parties briefs in their chambers prior to coming out)

                                Watering it down means pleading both parties did all the bad stuff together and later slamming OCL over CAS findings ..OCL is a screwball.

                                Comment

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