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LF32 "need to see daughter" pt.2

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  • Originally posted by dinkyface View Post
    Seriously??? How about this: She wants something different than you and she is using her strongest bargaining cards (your kid, and 'woman in distress') to get it. It's a war, not a character training exercise.

    15 years ago, a male co-worker of mine was going thru divorce - with a 2-yr old son. They were 2 bright young hardworking professionals. He didn't say much, and I didn't understand what he was going thru, but one thing sticks in my mind, and was amplified by my recent experiences: He said it was all about CONTROL.
    Oh .. I was talking about ignoring Tayken here (using process of extinction)

    Comment


    • Originally posted by MrToronto View Post
      brief preperation.........when it's absolutely finalized with attachments, number in the top right corner....page 1 of 30.....then page 2 of 30...and so on

      Make sure the 3 copies of briefs are "exactly the same"....I read somewhere judges hate searching for missing material.....and it does happen (my ex did more than a few times)

      The problem is too many last minute changes or revisions and your stuck with 3 pre made duplicates that you have to pull apart and add too and then re number....it only takes one distraction ..and the judges copy doesn't match yours....OUCH.
      Yes, organization will be paramount.

      If I were to send a letter today regarding the access/verbal abuse thing:

      Dear Mr. ____

      Due to Ms. _____'s ultimatum of Thursday access or nothing at all, as well as the your previous confusion regarding e-mails, I would like to establish that all future Thursday access (9:00am - 5:00pm) should be considered confirmed unless I notify you otherwise. Also a reminder that I am still awaiting your disclosure and Ms. _____'s 15 dates as per the July Calendar I sent on June 11th. Note that I am keeping careful record of every day that I am refused access.

      I trust that you have received my voluntary hair follicle test. I am also conducting weekly urinalysis tests for alcohol. Regarding verbal abuse, we argued like most couples and it went both ways. If Ms. ___ has evidence otherwise it has been manipulated.



      Thank you,

      Last edited by LovingFather32; 06-27-2014, 11:02 AM.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by LovingFather32 View Post
        Oh .. I was talking about ignoring Tayken here (using process of extinction)
        I certainly don't want to take this off track again but Tayken probably has a lot more court experience than anyone on here so I would be careful how you view his responses and suggestions. Some of them are probably valid, and this is by no means an attack on you LF32.

        I will leave it at that.

        Comment


        • Dear Mr. ____

          Due to confusion regarding e-mails, I would like to establish that all future Thursday access (9:00am - 5:00pm) should be considered confirmed unless I notify you otherwise. Also a reminder that I am still awaiting your disclosure and Ms. _____'s 15 dates as per the July Calendar I sent on June 11th.

          I trust that you have received my voluntary hair follicle test. I am also conducting weekly urinalysis tests for alcohol.

          Thank you,

          This is what you should send....stop showing them that they are getting to you and stop showing them your hand.

          You do not have to prove the verbal abuse allegations...they do. Do not even mention it.
          Last edited by good_mom; 06-27-2014, 11:12 AM.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by FB_ View Post
            I certainly don't want to take this off track again but Tayken probably has a lot more court experience than anyone on here so I would be careful how you view his responses and suggestions. Some of them are probably valid, and this is by no means an attack on you LF32.

            I will leave it at that.
            I know he has a lot of experience FB. But he shouldn't read a few lines of a thread and postulate that I'm not a good litigant, I'm untruthful and I'll lose. That's where he lost me. I get his "get a lawyer stuff" but being called a liar does kind of feel like an attack FB. Every syllable Ive written here s the truth.

            Comment


            • You can again ask for OFD as a means to communicate again and offer to pay it...I would put it in.

              Do expect OP to ask for the results of the weekly urinalysis and you can add this in that you are sending them to him and will show you are one step ahead of him.


              Some ideas that can add to your case.

              Comment


              • The advantage of hiring a lawyer is that they have the legal experience, they know the process and forms to file and what good ones look like, and when they go and what not, and they are familiar with your ex's lawyer and his style. They also know what each judge likes to see. The disadvantage, as you have experienced, is that it's expensive, and your lawyer will also have other cases on the go which draw time and attention away from yours.

                The advantage of self-repping is that you know your ex better than just about anyone, you know your case and CARE about it better than anyone else, and you save money. The disadvantage is that you have a huge time-consuming learning curve about legal procedure, and you will never have the same extensive background experience about your ex's lawyer and the judge.

                Since you can't magically find money to deal with the main disadvantage of having a lawyer, you have to do your best to overcome the disadvantages of self-repping, and build on the strengths.

                You know your ex. What does she WANT out of this process? Looks to me like she wants you out of her life, and by extension, out of your daughter's life too. So that's a desire to avoid you and pretend you don't exist. Or is she feeling punitive? Figure out her motivation, and you'll know what strategies to try against her.

                You know your case. Take the time to make timelines, chronologies, factual lists, etc, appendixes of supporting documentation, similar caselaw, etc, to help the judge know it just as well. Learn what is relevant evidence, and what isn't. That recent thread about what a judge found annoying about lawyers was a great read. There was a nugget about how someone had once provided TWO binders of evidence, one with the documents sorted chronologically, and the other with the same documents sorted by subject, and he loved it. Preparation was WorkingDad's ace in the hole.

                Learn legal procedure. There's a lot of help to be had here, though accuracy is sometimes lacking, and you need to weed out what doesn't apply to you in Ontario. Having that lawyer to ask questions of should be helpful. Attend FLIC until they get sick of you. Attend other public matters to see how a courtroom operates.

                Develop background experience about your ex's lawyer. Try to find out what other cases he has on the go and attend the courtroom when they're being heard, to see his style. Find out the names of some of his former clients and contact them to ask what he's like. They'll think they're giving a reference to a potential client.

                Find out more about the judge. Can you learn who it will be in advance? Or who the possibilities are? Attend their court as a visitor to see how they operate.

                You need to invest either time or money. I think WorkingDad described in some thread just how much work he put in. It was phenomenal. Do you have that kind of spare time? It sounds like you are using your spare time right now to work more jobs, which only solves the money problem, not the preparation-work problem. Pick which thing you are investing your time in; working overtime so you can afford a lawyer, OR working on your case.

                And as you have already noticed, you need to draw on your Vulcan side. Be rational. Leave the emotions out. Don't let yourself get rattled by the antics. Take deep breaths. Meditate. Take up jogging. Missing a beer or a glass of wine is good; falling into substance abuse now would be the end of your case.

                One of the things you are doing here is venting, letting those emotions out. It's an okay outlet (until your ex's lawyer finds your threads -then you are toast and will have no choice but to go silent and get a lawyer), but the problem with it is that people, as you have seen, will jump to the conclusion that you are that emotional all the time. They see you flustered, reacting poorly, falling into the lawyer's traps, and of course they will believe you need a lawyer to provide that layer of filtering for your emotions if you expect to be successful.

                I think you may want to proceed on ODF in one of two ways.

                You can find an outside friend to be your emotional sponge, or write it in a journal, instead of spewing it out here. Then you would only need to come to us with specific legal questions. I would also suggest that you make a new thread for each individual topic, instead of having one giant thread nobody can follow that bloats up with entire pages about how much you need a lawyer.

                Or, you could clearly label your emotional posts in the Divorce Support section, and put your legal questions in the proper sub-forum. For example, most of your issues are about getting fair access and custody through the legal process, so they belong in Divorce and Family Law, not Parenting.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by LovingFather32 View Post
                  I know he has a lot of experience FB. But he shouldn't read a few lines of a thread and postulate that I'm not a good litigant, I'm untruthful and I'll lose. That's where he lost me. I get his "get a lawyer stuff" but being called a liar does kind of feel like an attack FB. Every syllable Ive written here s the truth.
                  1. How do you know he only read a few lines and hasn't been following the whole thing without commenting

                  2. You have been to court twice. You lost the first time as you were told you would by a lawyer and that's why he/she wouldn't go to a long motion as you wished.

                  3. This is the internet you could be a wife beating, drug abusing, alcoholic and no one here would know the difference. I'm not saying you are but again this is an anonymous site on the internet.

                  This forum is a great place for advice and also a great place to get third party thoughts. The judges view of you could be like Mr Toronto or like Tayken's view, you never know.

                  Again without beating a dead horse, I will say I very much fear you will be creamed at a motion without legal representation. I hope that is most definitely not but the learning curve is steep.

                  As long as you understand the risk/reward and are willing to live with the consequences so be it.

                  I have and will continue to provide you with any information that might help you no matter the path you choose.

                  Comment


                  • Thanks Rioe and FB

                    I want to remind everybody that a lawyer is why Im here in the first place and why I don't have D3. He refused an EM until it was too late.
                    FB: Even if Tayken read from pg. 1 I still lied about nothing. So his "untruthful" deduction is incorrect

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by LovingFather32 View Post
                      Thanks Rioe and FB

                      I want to remind everybody that a lawyer is why Im here in the first place and why I don't have D3. He refused an EM until it was too late.
                      FB: Even if Tayken read from pg. 1 I still lied about nothing. So his "untruthful" deduction is incorrect
                      He refused the EM to save you time, money and a costs order.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by FB_ View Post
                        He refused the EM to save you time, money and a costs order.
                        Tayken's stance on the issue is that I should have gotten one right away .. the day after. That I should know my rights regarding abduction.

                        FB: I agree I need a lawyer. So you're saying I should most definitely hold off on any kind of motion until I get one? I'm gong to try my hardest to find one. Just tough because theyre not budging and I cant afford one. Now shes not even showing up and Im being accused of falsifying e-mails. Its getting out of control now.
                        Last edited by LovingFather32; 06-27-2014, 12:22 PM.

                        Comment


                        • Stop with the could have, should have...you are wasting time that can be utilized to work on your case.

                          You have 3 choices:

                          1-fully self rep

                          2-self rep with lawyer helping in the background

                          3-full on lawyer


                          Time for you to make a choice and stick to it. Time to make a choice on cours of action and stick to it.

                          Stop being side tracked and focus on the information that will help you and the time on your file.

                          So they accused you of falsifying e-mails...again suggest OFD fully paid, do not say anything about the accusations.

                          Keep being nice nice and push forth proper means of communication and keep on asking for access.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by good_mom View Post
                            Stop with the could have, should have...you are wasting time that can be utilized to work on your case.

                            You have 3 choices:

                            1-fully self rep

                            2-self rep with lawyer helping in the background

                            3-full on lawyer


                            Time for you to make a choice and stick to it. Time to make a choice on cours of action and stick to it.

                            Stop being side tracked and focus on the information that will help you and the time on your file.

                            So they accused you of falsifying e-mails...again suggest OFD fully paid, do not say anything about the accusations.

                            Keep being nice nice and push forth proper means of communication and keep on asking for access.
                            Great advice. I am getting side-tracked. You're right.

                            Comment


                            • LF32 didn't lose the EM

                              If the lawyer was saving him money by not going to a EM...then LF32 would have nothing...no access

                              LF32 got a Judge to direct access offers by parties and less than a month later recieved the access. How is it LF32 lost?...because the motion cost him 200 lousy bucks?

                              Comment


                              • You will never know until you get to court what they may or may not have on you…so what?

                                You have what you need to show you are a good parent and that what counts.

                                What you have is what counts. What you presently don't have is time with D3.

                                So what is the worst thing at a motion till trail that can happen...you end up with the same access?

                                What is the best thing that can happen, additional access with no supervision, great and it is better then what you have now.

                                Everyday that you wait to make a move is one day less….make a choice and get this rolling.

                                If you do get additional time, always have supervisor present at pick ups and drop off even if this is ordered to protect yourself

                                You will never know unless you try.

                                Comment

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