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  • The Witch Hunt as a Structure of Argumentation

    http://www.dougwalton.ca/papers%20in...6WitchHunt.pdf

    This is a very interesting read; especially for anyone having to deal with false allegations of abuse during a child custody dispute.


    Is there any value in taking the specifics of one's own litigation and attempting to show how they clearly demonstrate an example of this type of structure of argument? How or when would one present this?

  • #2
    Originally posted by FamilyBlah View Post
    http://www.dougwalton.ca/papers%20in...6WitchHunt.pdf

    This is a very interesting read; especially for anyone having to deal with false allegations of abuse during a child custody dispute.


    Is there any value in taking the specifics of one's own litigation and attempting to show how they clearly demonstrate an example of this type of structure of argument? How or when would one present this?
    Very similar to Dr. Lawson's archetype for "The Witch" in her book "The Borderline Mother".

    The World of the Borderline Mother--And Her Children | Psychology Today

    Understanding the Borderline Mother: Helping Her Children Transcend the Intense, Unpredictable, and Volatile Relationshi: Helping Her Children Transcend the Intense, Unpredictable, and Volatile Relationship: Amazon.ca: Christine Ann Lawson: Books

    Markham's Behavioral Health: The Borderline Witch - Part three- The Witch's motto: Life Is War

    Comment


    • #3
      Interesting analysis, and yes I was the victim of a witch hunt with all the properties described therein.

      Honestly, I do not know to this day what awful registries and lists my name was added to, despite there being no charges and no evidence of any kind. On the contrary, I faced the burden of "guilty until proven innocent" which took an enormous amount of time and resources (money) to convince authorities that there was no abuse at home.

      Comment


      • #4
        In my case, both me and my new partner were both going through divorces, and BOTH of our former spouses used it. The child was injured at daycare while we were at work, when we got the child home we found the injury (it was of a sexual nature) and took the child to the hospital.

        During the resulting investigation, both former spouses jumped on the bandwagon individually against us with awful accusations and the daycare was not properly investigated as a result. In fact the daycare closed and moved to another city as soon as the investigation started. It took us more than 7 months to be reunited and my partner lost custody.

        Comment


        • #5
          Because women are historically and stereotypically the weaker sex, as a result the 'system' has been structured to balance that with the strength of accusation to being powerful.

          Added to that, the very nature of such acts (should they be true upon accusation) are reprehensable. As a just society, we must investigate all such claims and take appropriate action.

          As to why fraudelent claims appear to be non-punishable, I don't have a good answer to that. The woman (or man) whom cries wolf should indeed be held to task if said claim is made in bad faith.

          Now before everyone jumps on me, this is just my opinion - and I am speaking in broad strokes.

          Even more so - children are the 'ultimate' of innocence. Our society values that innocence to the extreme, and rightfully so. An act of violence is more tolerated if it occurs between adults then as to being impinged on the innocence of youth.
          Last edited by wretchedotis; 07-17-2012, 03:25 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            The problem is that society is NOT just, and the mere accusation through nothing but hearsay used as a tactic in family court has life long consequences. Even if you are able to prove your innocence (the opposite of what our system is supposed to do), you can't undo the damage.

            Believe me, I am not the same person I was a year ago after going through it. Being a great dad for now also means being able to legally defend my every action and choices, and it's sad that I have to live like this.

            Being reunited with the children helped a lot, but I still struggle with the anxiety and depression fairly often.

            That's the personal cost. There's more.

            Certain career options, jobs that I used to do and loved, are closed to me now. My security clearance for my current job was put at risk though I managed to hang onto it. I was bypassed for promotions at work for a year while I struggled with it.

            I had to pay lawyers and experts which put my already perilous financial future at risk considering the divorce had already cleaned me out.

            And yeah, the people who made the accusations? They're doing just great.
            Last edited by winterwolf7; 07-17-2012, 03:55 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              I am currently the target of a witch hunt and have been since April 2009. False allegations of spousal abuse and child abuse have been made against me. Affidavits and briefs have been filled with unsubstantiated accusations and the actual issues in dispute have largely been ignored. It's difficult to know how to respond because while there is no evidence to support the claims it's almost impossible to refute them beyond a reasonable doubt.

              Comment


              • #8
                I'm sorry you're going through something similar FamilyBlah.

                I wished through most of my ordeal that I would finally get a day in court somewhere, anywhere, to be able to view, present and discuss actual evidence to disprove the allegations. I never had that chance... CAS takes kids without any evidence, the police will lie blatantly and continuously to you without any regard for the truth or justice, and no one has any interest in justice except for the victim of the false accusations. For everyone else in the family destruction industry it's their bread and butter.

                You need to dispute each point against you with as much as evidence as possible. Emotional reasoning and false allegations seem (to me) to be much easier to deal with in a court room than from the back room of a police station because evidence actually matters.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I can sympathize. I've been accused of sexually assaulting my son twice. Both times investigated by CAS and police - to which they concluded the accusations were unfounded.

                  I am currently scheduled for trial in criminal court for the second accusation of phyical viloence/threats to my ex. The first time costing me thousands in legal fees to defend, taking away valuable resources from me that could have otherwise been made available to my son. This time around after recently faced said previous criminal and even more recent family court proceedings - I lack the financial wherewithall to hire counsel to defend myself again.

                  All I can say is I am a man, and will hold my head high knowing I've never committed those acts. She can 'use the system' all she wants. Karma is a bitch and her malice will be returned upon her one day.

                  Until that day, I am content in the knowledge that I take the higher ground and will not seccumb to such petty tactics.

                  You can't control what others do - you can only control your own actions.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by winterwolf7 View Post
                    Interesting analysis, and yes I was the victim of a witch hunt with all the properties described therein.

                    Honestly, I do not know to this day what awful registries and lists my name was added to, despite there being no charges and no evidence of any kind. On the contrary, I faced the burden of "guilty until proven innocent" which took an enormous amount of time and resources (money) to convince authorities that there was no abuse at home.
                    Better identified as a "distortion campaign" and often comes with high-conflict situations and people.

                    BPD Distortion Campaigns | angiEmedia

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by wretchedotis View Post
                      I can sympathize. I've been accused of sexually assaulting my son twice. Both times investigated by CAS and police - to which they concluded the accusations were unfounded.

                      I am currently scheduled for trial in criminal court for the second accusation of phyical viloence/threats to my ex. The first time costing me thousands in legal fees to defend, taking away valuable resources from me that could have otherwise been made available to my son. This time around after recently faced said previous criminal and even more recent family court proceedings - I lack the financial wherewithall to hire counsel to defend myself again.

                      All I can say is I am a man, and will hold my head high knowing I've never committed those acts. She can 'use the system' all she wants. Karma is a bitch and her malice will be returned upon her one day.

                      Until that day, I am content in the knowledge that I take the higher ground and will not seccumb to such petty tactics.

                      You can't control what others do - you can only control your own actions.
                      If only others could do the same as you are doing... That is how you resolve the problem by properly defending yourself. Taking the higher ground and logically disassembling the arguments versus allowing yourself to be overcome with emotion (succumb to petty tactics) will be the best resolution to the problem.

                      Fear (anxiety) is the worst thing to have at a time like this. Hard for many people to do in these intense situations.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        It is a tragedy that such behaviour is still going on considering the known effects it can have on children.

                        The difficulty in trying to represent oneself is immeasurable in the best of circumstances, but when one must deal with a high conflict parent who likely has a personality disorder and is represented by an unscrupulous lawyer with no interest in negotiations or settlement, it is extremely debilitating. Now throw in some false spousal abuse allegations and some false child abuse allegations, some parental alienation, and the plethora of negative enablers the "REAL ABUSER" collects in their wake....it's a recipe for disaster!

                        I am now unable to work because of health reasons, yet I have no choice but to continue. The best interests of my children are NOT being served! Giving up is not an option for me!

                        I really cannot comprehend how a court system that places so much weight on the best interests of the children can allow something like this to continue, not only in a single case, but year after year. Is it not a truism that an attack on a parent is also an indirect attack on the children to some extent? I really don't get it.

                        There must be a point in time when someone is held accountable.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Tayken View Post
                          If only others could do the same as you are doing... That is how you resolve the problem by properly defending yourself. Taking the higher ground and logically disassembling the arguments versus allowing yourself to be overcome with emotion (succumb to petty tactics) will be the best resolution to the problem.

                          Fear (anxiety) is the worst thing to have at a time like this. Hard for many people to do in these intense situations.
                          I am also trying to properly defend myself. Make no mistake, I have not always been a saint in this litigation process, but I can honestly say I've improved. I'm making a concerted effort to remove emotions from the equation when it comes to my actions and words. I am trying to "logically disassemble the arguments" but stress, mental health, fear and anxiety, immense sadness, anger, all serve as barriers to some extent despite best efforts. And that's only my side of the wall. On the other side you have a HCP, a lawyer, and a seemingly never-ending entourage of negative enablers.

                          An even playing field sure would be nice.

                          The quickest and simplest explanation as to how it all makes me feel is that I don't know whether to cry or punch myself in the nose.

                          -----------------------------------------

                          Here are some things I am doing (and plan to do) in an effort to logically disassemble the arguments. Direction is very much appreciated if I appear misguided.

                          Child Abuse Allegations

                          1. CAS investigated the allegations. They interviewed me once in my home and I am assuming they also interviewed my ex-wife and each of our three children. If memory serves, the time between when they interviewed me and when they contacted me to let me know "it was not a matter that required CAS involvement" was 2-3 weeks.

                          I have met with CAS and requested a copy of the file. They are going to provide me with a "summary" of the contents. They said they would have this for me before the trial management conference in late September.

                          I am sending a letter to my ex's lawyer tomorrow requesting they consent to an order for the Children’s Aid Society of XXXXXXXX to provide full disclosure of any and all files concerning the children of the marriage by providing a true copy of all information contained therein. I do not expect them to consent so I will likely have to file a motion to get the order.

                          QUESTION: I'm certain I will need to serve both my ex and CAS. Is this just a matter of serving the same documents on both parties?


                          2. I have two separate Facebook "conversations" through private messages with two different individuals. These individuals were once mutual friends of both me and my ex, but have since been recruited into my ex's entourage. The conversations occurred after the separation, but before my ex recruited them.

                          In the messages, they refer to what a great father I am. One of the messages also includes "and [my ex] thinks so too."

                          I strongly suspect that my ex may try to use one (possibly both) of these people as character references. This seems like something I should hope for.

                          QUESTION: Are these relevant? How do I ensure these are admissible (Request to Admit)?


                          3. I have another Facebook message sent from my ex to my mother. This message was sent more than 18 months after the separation. In the message, my ex states, " he is a great father and I have never doubted his love/care for his children."

                          QUESTION: Is this relevant? Should I have my mother attach an affidavit to a copy of this FB message?


                          4. I was able to briefly look at my children's medical files during an appointment with the family doctor last week. I explained why I was interested and he stated there are no reports or indications of abuse in any of their files. I have another appointment next week where I hope to get copies of the files.


                          Thanks everyone!
                          Last edited by FamilyBlah; 07-17-2012, 07:48 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by FamilyBlah View Post
                            QUESTION: I'm certain I will need to serve both my ex and CAS. Is this just a matter of serving the same documents on both parties?
                            In my opinion you should just serve the request for disclosure (use Form 20) to the other party and serve it on the other party's lawyer. You can try and suggest that the CAS disclosure should be provided in accordance with Rule 35.1 of the CLRA.

                            There is a requirement to disclose (#5) on Form 35.1 which states:

                            I have been a party or person responsible for the care of a child in the following child protection court case(s): (attach a copy of any relevant court order(s) or endorsement(s) you have)

                            Now, it specifically states "child protection court case(s)" which may not apply as CAS made no findings. You should have gotten a letter from CAS with regards to the closing of the file. You can request a status report from CAS regarding the file and their position directly. I would recommend CC'ing the other party on this request to CAS.

                            Originally posted by FamilyBlah View Post
                            2. I have two separate Facebook "conversations" through private messages with two different individuals. These individuals were once mutual friends of both me and my ex, but have since been recruited into my ex's entourage. The conversations occurred after the separation, but before my ex recruited them.

                            In the messages, they refer to what a great father I am. One of the messages also includes "and [my ex] thinks so too."

                            I strongly suspect that my ex may try to use one (possibly both) of these people as character references. This seems like something I should hope for.

                            QUESTION: Are these relevant? How do I ensure these are admissible (Request to Admit)?
                            You can just put them into your trial record. Carefully read the content though and you need to produce them so they are defensible. It is easy to deny that the message is from the party who sent it. You don't want to find yourself having to ask for a technical order for Facebook to produce the evidence.

                            They are relevant in that they demonstrate that the party who said you were a good father said that your ex said this. It is double hearsay and most valuable if that person appears as a "negative advocate". You can always enter the evidence on cross examination.

                            Also, you should be requesting the witness list from the other party and what each witness will be called for and why. You can also address this at the pre-trial conference if they fail to provide this disclosure.

                            Originally posted by FamilyBlah View Post
                            3. I have another Facebook message sent from my ex to my mother. This message was sent more than 18 months after the separation. In the message, my ex states, " he is a great father and I have never doubted his love/care for his children."

                            QUESTION: Is this relevant? Should I have my mother attach an affidavit to a copy of this FB message?
                            This should be in your trial record and is relevant.

                            Originally posted by FamilyBlah View Post
                            4. I was able to briefly look at my children's medical files during an appointment with the family doctor last week. I explained why I was interested and he stated there are no reports or indications of abuse in any of their files. I have another appointment next week where I hope to get copies of the files.
                            Unless there is a specific order for sole custody to the other parent the doctor has to produce the records in accordance with Policy #5-05 of the College of Physicians and Surgeons.

                            http://www.ocfp.on.ca/docs/collabora...r.pdf?sfvrsn=2

                            Read the policy very carefully. Specifically:

                            Minor Patients of Separated Parents

                            The Children’s Law Reform Act permits an ‘access parent’ of a minor child to obtain personal health information about that child. However, many other factors may affect the right of an access parent to the personal health information of their child, such as a Court Order, a separation agreement, a marriage contract, or the fact that the parents live outside Ontario. Therefore, unless the physician understands the family situation and has the consent of both parents, the physician should seek advice from the CMPA or his or her lawyer before providing information to an access parent.

                            Remember, if there is no court order specifically stating custody (sole custody) or anything that doesn't permit you to obtain copies of the records then you are technically a "joint custodial parent" and can get the records.

                            Good Luck!
                            Tayken

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by wretchedotis View Post
                              I can sympathize. I've been accused of sexually assaulting my son twice. Both times investigated by CAS and police - to which they concluded the accusations were unfounded.

                              I am currently scheduled for trial in criminal court for the second accusation of phyical viloence/threats to my ex. The first time costing me thousands in legal fees to defend, taking away valuable resources from me that could have otherwise been made available to my son. This time around after recently faced said previous criminal and even more recent family court proceedings - I lack the financial wherewithall to hire counsel to defend myself again.

                              All I can say is I am a man, and will hold my head high knowing I've never committed those acts. She can 'use the system' all she wants. Karma is a bitch and her malice will be returned upon her one day.

                              Until that day, I am content in the knowledge that I take the higher ground and will not seccumb to such petty tactics.

                              You can't control what others do - you can only control your own actions.
                              LOL!
                              Reading through ths thread - brings me back to when my ex and I first split up. Life was CRAZY. Thank God all the drama has calmed down to certain extent. I can recall how she tried to have me charged with theft when I once forgot to return some articles of clothing with him.

                              Don't get me wrong - she's still a nutbasket - just not as often anymore.
                              Only took 5 years...

                              Comment

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