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Police called - what rights does my son have?

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  • #76
    Hammerdad is correct.

    But I understand Rockscan's piece as well. The onus will be on the parent to prove that the child is being brainwashed in to not wanting to see the other parent .. which of course may not be an easy task, as we all have read the debates on Parental Alienation here. It's no walk in the park.

    I have a feeling I will face this in the future as well and I'm not looking forward to it.

    Comment


    • #77
      Regardless of brainwashing and the like, when you read a lot of these decisions where paying parents are being hauled into court to pay for expenses for kids that dont speak to them, the judges decisions almost ALWAYS include a comment that the support receiver has an OBLIGATION to support and encourage a relationship between a parent and a child regardless of how they feel about it. And it goes for both parents regardless of the age. Yes your ex wife is probably a giant crazy pants and im sure your son hates her but YOU are OBLIGATED to support and encourage that relationship including recommending counseling if necessary.

      Ignore my bitterness about our situation. Ive grown tired of the "well theyre teens I cant force them" argument. Yes you can. You are the parent and how you feel about your ex shouldnt be put on your child. She is still his mother and she has rights too.

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by rockscan View Post
        the judges decisions almost ALWAYS include a comment that the support receiver has an OBLIGATION to support and encourage a relationship between a parent and a child regardless of how they feel about it.
        This herein lies the problem. The parent (like my ex) .. will say that she's encouraging a relationship of course. It will take a myriad of money, Dr's and time to prove they're not encouraging this (unless they mess up big time).

        But I get Rock's point of view. I surely hope that all parents in these situations are doing everything in their god given power to encourage and promote relationships with the other parent.

        Comment


        • #79
          But I get Rock's point of view. I surely hope that all parents in these situations are doing everything in their god given power to encourage and promote relationships with the other parent.
          The danger of not following this advice is a situation like I have with my 21 yr old son. He refuses to speak with his Mother due to the fact that she did everything in her power to Interfere with his relationship with me. As he got older he saw what her true motivation was and it was not looking after his best interests. I don’t like that he has little to no relationship with his mother and I encourage him to but he tells me he is really done with her. This is the danger of not putting your children above all the differences between ex-spouses. My Ex is now living that but worst part is I don’t think she cares.<O</O

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by Harold Callahan View Post
            I would have no choice but to accept it at this point would I not? I would respect it. I'd want to know why and I'd certainly try to rectify the issue but not but dragging everyone through court or calling the police. Not at his age. You will only make the child hate you.

            UPDATE: I just got a call from the CAS of Ontario. They have to follow up on the police visit and subsequent report. Nice chat. At 16 he can live where he wants. So age does matter. The agent/case worker also told me that at this point no respectable judge would go against the wishes of a 14 yr old. The case worker was not showing any bias I could detect in any way but just volunteered the comment. Remember their priority is the child's welfare. They will not be pursuing anything but did encourage counselling.

            So that's the bottom line folks. Be fair and consistent with your kids because by the time they hit 14/15 they will have their own mind. The judge will respect it regardless of what rights you "think" they have or don't have.

            Franklin and a few other's seem to get this. I'll continue to update here for others to benefit from in a fair and ethical manner.

            H

            So, in other words, this is pretty much what HammerDad and I have said at the very beginning:

            -Comply with the agreement/order for the moment, even if your 14 year doesn't want to go back to mom's house.
            -Seek a change to the order, since the judge will heavily weight what the 14 year old says.
            -At the age of 16, they can pick regardless, so all of this posturing and maneuvering and hand-wringing over the matter will be rendered pointless in 1.5 years.

            Either way, you need to be the adult and have junior follow the schedule until you either change it in the mid-term (court), or his own decision making power kicks in at 16 (his own choice).

            Case closed.

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by LovingFather32 View Post
              This herein lies the problem. The parent (like my ex) .. will say that she's encouraging a relationship of course. It will take a myriad of money, Dr's and time to prove they're not encouraging this (unless they mess up big time).

              "I gave them your message"

              "Theres still one or two weeks free this summer but its up to them of course"

              "I cant guarantee something wont come up"

              This is encouragement. Not enough for a contempt order but definitely in the binder.

              I pity the parents with teens, pre-teens or exes who empower their kids to behave this way.

              Comment


              • #82
                Good for you. Remember to encourage (practically oblige) your son to visit his mom anyways. If he doesn't a judge may use his lack of visitation as proof there is parental alienation (god forbid the mom is actually a manipulating biatch and the kid is just sick of it....)

                Practically speaking, I would wait 6 months, then file a motion to change and ask for retroactive support.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Follow this 14 yr. old child's journey (btw, I believe 14 year olds are still children and should not be making custody decisions, as Hammerdad and other posters have stated. Nor should a 14 yr old be making any other numerous adult decisions including, but not limited to finances, sex, etc.).

                  It's a long video, sit through it if you can, to the very end. If you have the druthers, seek out their respective facebook pages. I think the Dad has just been recently released from jail.

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKfm723mISo

                  Btw, Rockscan - correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought your partner moved hours away from his children at separation? The parental alienation argument is a little harder to argue when one parent moves away. But maybe I'm thinking of thinking of another poster.
                  Start a discussion, not a fire. Post with kindness.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by mcdreamy View Post
                    Follow this 14 yr. old child's journey (btw, I believe 14 year olds are still children and should not be making custody decisions, as Hammerdad and other posters have stated. Nor should a 14 yr old be making any other numerous adult decisions including, but not limited to finances, sex, etc.).

                    It's a long video, sit through it if you can, to the very end. If you have the druthers, seek out their respective facebook pages. I think the Dad has just been recently released from jail.

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKfm723mISo

                    Btw, Rockscan - correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought your partner moved hours away from his children at separation? The parental alienation argument is a little harder to argue when one parent moves away. But maybe I'm thinking of thinking of another poster.
                    How does the physical distance between Parent A and Parent B cancel out the negative behaviours of Parent A?

                    If Parent A screens phone calls, lies about Parent B to turn the kids against that parent, and consistently encourages the kids to avoid time with Parent B, it's still alienation. Whether Parent B is a city block, a country mile, or a whole province away doesn't make the behaviour of Parent A acceptable.

                    Does it really matter if Parent B chose to move away? It might not have been ideal but that doesn't excuse Parent A from acting like a responsible human being.

                    What am I missing?

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by mcdreamy View Post
                      Btw, Rockscan - correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought your partner moved hours away from his children at separation? The parental alienation argument is a little harder to argue when one parent moves away. But maybe I'm thinking of thinking of another poster.

                      He lived there for over a year and had his access denied and lies told about him. This continued after he moved even when he spent every other month going to them. They would agree on a weekend and when he arrived suddenly "plans changed" or "theyre sick" or "was that this weekend?" etc. He is aware of lies being told about him and comments have been made about how theres no room for them at dads house anymore. Theres a great deal more that I wont get in to. My main argument is the one parent cant decide they arent going to encourage a relationship because kid reaches a certain age. There is always an obligation to encourage your children to have a relationship with their parent. Unless theyre an axe murderer in jail, it shouldnt even be a question.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        I believe the original question asked on this thread was "what rights does my son have."

                        The answer would be for your son to contact the OCL (children's lawyer) as your son is still a "child."

                        You did not ask, but received, parenting advice. You can abide by the law or not.

                        You seem to think your son is old enough to make grown-up decisions then why not let him?



                        Good luck
                        Last edited by arabian; 06-16-2015, 11:09 PM. Reason: Son is grown-up in parent's opinion

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          For you that can read french - your "opinions" that kids a should have no say about their living arrangement is completely out of step with the much more progressive family law system of Quebec.

                          CanLII - 2014 QCCS 6011 (CanLII)

                          These are judges, and appellate judges who think kids as young as 8 can have an opinion and about 12 their decisions are largely determinative.

                          You can think what you like but at least the jurisprudence in once province believes kids have the right to decide where they live.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            So this father has the mother bad mouthing him for starters. As far as I have read he does not stop the boy or discourage him from the mother.
                            Some posters here have now accused him of PA out of thin air. Lectured him in the art of becoming a law abiding citizen and warned him of the severe consequences he faces with respecting his sons wishes. He has explained the situation as this. That,s what OI got out of this.

                            Go to court get some useless order for mom to shut up bout him, wait 6 months for more hell to break loose, have the police show up to escourt the boy home to mom, have some more allegations laid against him, fight that , have some more visits from CAS, wait out another restraining order. Spend tons of time and money in fear of being victimized. Stress and worry all in the name of rightousness.

                            Ya great advise. Stand up to stupidity, and watch it play it,s self out sounds like the best way for this situation.
                            Sure if the mother would accept the law the way some post then wonderful. Provide a motion to change and away they go on their merry way, no hard feelings

                            But that,s not the way here. Start thinking about the best interest of the child, remeber the mother has created this problem as Harold states. The law has turned this into what it is with it,s complacency for uninforcable orders.

                            I aggree OCL should take over as LAO,s do. Drag this out like they do , lie cheat and give the boy what he wants. He should have the same rights as the rest of us. Ok they don,t have to lie and cheat, but at least get to bottom of truth. That would be a job well done and worth my tax paying dollars and be a great lawer job to be proud of. Right now OCL only does half the job and they only provide a statement at first, all without proof and consequence or second opinion.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              I'll just say in my case here, I do believe 2 parents are way better than one. So to that end I only fight for a 50/50 arrangement unless there is some other issue which warrants something different. I say things like .. "We should send this cool photo of you doing this activity to you mom, she may like this.." I don't try to poison that relationship

                              Originally posted by arabian View Post
                              SOTS - yep - "parental alienation" seems to be the flavor of the month. I visualize an adult and a son who like to play computer games together and who are irritated when it's time for 1 playmate to go home for supper.
                              No it's a serious issue and one that is quite frustrating and nearly impossible to fix in court other than a slap on the wrist.. What it can end up doing is driving a wedge between a child and their parent taking months or years to repair. The video game thing is so typical. My Ex for example also thinks that's what my role should be or where it should end. I'm to be the fun time Dad etc. and then the serious parenting begins when he goes back home. You two would probably get along well! lol Remember at 14 they need something more than just playing "video games"


                              Originally posted by rockscan View Post
                              So if thats true, my partners 14 who refuses to speak to him because he wont write a blank cheque for whatever whim she has in life should be respected? Because thats what his ex believes. That her feelings are the most important. Even though those feelings are that shes mad about the divorce because they have no money so she can do all the things the rich kids in her neighbourhood do. And her mom supports her because shes 14. Way to let your kid make the decisions best left to adults!
                              At 14 she is part of the equation. You can no longer say "go play in your room while the adults decide where you are staying tonight" I think the bigger problem for him is the relationship itself. Get that sorted out first. Forcing her to stay may or may not help the situation and only your partner will know which approach will work best with his daughter. Ideally the mom would be trying to help solve that issue as well.


                              Originally posted by HammerDad View Post

                              But taking the lazy/complacent route until the child is 16 and can emancipate themselves isn't going to win you any medals. If anything, should the ex take you to court for contempt, the judge will ask why you didn't attempt to do it the right way to begin with.
                              I think that after a new status quo has been achieved I will be in a better position to go for the motion to change. The change is reasonable given the factor's discussed previously and so I may never actually be dragged into court for contempt. (I'll let you know) I did ask my EX to sit down with a mediator but she refused saying ultimately she will never agree. I may reach out again in 6 months. I'm not sure if my approach is "Lazy" or just practical and extremely efficient. The thousands of dollars I may potentially save will be put to good use on my son.

                              I still think this approach requires consideration and common sense but can be justified in the right circumstances. It's certainly a good alternative to wasting a lot of time in court.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Harold Callahan View Post
                                I think that after a new status quo has been achieved I will be in a better position to go for the motion to change. The change is reasonable given the factor's discussed previously and so I may never actually be dragged into court for contempt. (I'll let you know) I did ask my EX to sit down with a mediator but she refused saying ultimately she will never agree. I may reach out again in 6 months. I'm not sure if my approach is "Lazy" or just practical and extremely efficient. The thousands of dollars I may potentially save will be put to good use on my son.

                                I still think this approach requires consideration and common sense but can be justified in the right circumstances. It's certainly a good alternative to wasting a lot of time in court.
                                This plan only works if the ex allows it to work. Should the ex take you to court next week/next month, it kills the attempt at status quo. The ex would also likely argue that it was a false status quo created by you.

                                If your ex is lazy, and does nothing for months, than your plan would likely work. But if your ex isn't, your chances of succeeding with this plan diminish greatly.

                                Comment

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