A documentary

[LovingFather32]

What Links is proposing is not that outrageous. Is he rough around the edges about it? Sure he is .. he just exited the meat grinder and has his own subjective feelings and opinions about the family law system.

A documentary outlining the steps a father could take when he arrives home from work to no family, a slew of false allegations and 3/4 of his bank account missing .. or a father who's been locked out of his own home and suddenly has no family because mom met someone else or dislikes the relationship, etc.

Not everybody has a flying carpet like ONDaddy that wisps around the block collecting orders, CAS reports, tracing phone signals all within a day or 2, sending the mom on EOW.

In the real world we have a battle on our hands. We need evidence, access denials in writing, how to start an application, how to present in a CC or SC .. offers of settlement, parenting classes, etc. Christ, I even went for and became a certified "baby seat installation" instructor.

I know Links, everything that happened to me in the 2 years and the same posters torment me until this day.

We don't hate women. All I have is women in my life. I was raised by a single mom. I work with mostly ladies, go on coffee breaks with them, etc.

We just want a fair race for custody and perhaps some stories and rough tutorials for fathers would facilitate that. The mom's are 10 steps ahead when the father gets home to no family.

Links just wants it to be more been footing by educating what steps to take.

Why not women too? The advice given can be used by mothers also of course ... but lets face it, men don't usually call 911, report abuse, lock the doors and say "no access" as often as mom's. We also dont have Shelter's and counselor's paving the way for us. We're the "tough" gender who arn't allowed to cry, show pain, etc.

I'm not a misogynist at all. Women ROCK. But Link's idea isn't all that outlandish and evil. It would be educational, informative and would probably shorten the line ups at FLIC and save money on lawyers.

[Pursuinghappiness]

I'd be interested in watching a documentary about the divorce industry but not if it was gender biased and focused on men and not the whole problem.

I have a number of friends who are highly earners than their male spouses and are screwed right now. One of my friends has 4 kids and is about to lose her house due to a 2nd husband who literally turned into a leech right after she married him.

I'd be very interested in seeing a documentary about vexatious litigations and how the court system coddles aholes....whatever gender they are.

[LovingFather32]

Not everyone is a parent like ONDaddy.

Ego much? I forget .. did WorkingDad circle the block getting orders, CAS reports and kid back in a day like a blockbuster film .. or not? WorkingDad, LF32 and many other fathers just cant live up to the legend that is ONDaddy.

BTW .. CAS takes a lot longer for an investigation than what you said (few hours), especially when child abuse is alleged. Then they have to prepare a letter to close the file and mail it to both parties. Please ONDaddy ..I urge you to stop pretending.

I was a little excited when this had a change of being gender neutral, but not anymore.

I already typed that mom's could use the info just as effectively.

There are many threads and stickies here for women (abuse, where to go to get help, etc). No Gender neutrality there. What would the problem be with a little informative viewing to assist dad's who went through what many of us have? I'll tell you what .. nothing! And that does NOT mean I have anything against women by offering a service to dad's. Why jump to that conclusion?

The parents who pay a lawyer to tell them they shouldn't parent will find no value in this documentary. Explaining your techniques on avoiding court won't help either.

Yep .. Dont get a lawyer. Listen to ONDaddy .. because his story make so much sense.

I dont believe Links nor I have ever said "avoid court". But you're wrong....ATTEMPTS to avoid court Do help you. Show the courts that you're the reasonable one, you tried to settle, you were an equal primary caregiver .. you NEVER acquiescenced to the newly stolen status quo and prove it.

In fact the LSUC code of professional ethics encourages the above (settlement, saving courts time/money, etc. As does the Primary Objectives of the CLRA.

Had I listened to ONDaddy I wouldn't have had the results I have now. No war, no trial .. amicable with ex and got the 50/50, finances, etc I sought from the beginning.

Don't be fooled by some posters ... a documentary would be about those who "actually" went through it.

I like Pursuing Happiness' idea also. How to deal with A'holes in and out of court .. man or woman.

[PeacefulMoments]

Children! Grandma says play nice.

[Soiled]

Instead of focusing on a gender battle as has happened on dozens of other threads - I'm pretty sure you all know eachothers opinions on that BS by now, don't you? - why not actually provide constructive advice which could asist in the project if its something he really wants to do?

While public perception on it is changing, if extremely slowly, the reality is, when faced with the prospect of divorce, spousal support, child support, and child custody, men believe,they have an uphill battle when it comes to these things, and that they don't have much of a chance. Resulting in many not even trying to fight it, though that is just a personal observation.

For one of the equality topics brought up in this thread, income disparity between sexes for the same job, the biggest factor in eliminating this was/would be establishing the public perception that there is absolutly not reason for this to occur. Once that began to happen, the problem began to shrink.

The same perception needs to be brought to the general public in this country, in order for equality to happen in divorce as well. If men weren't convinced that they were going to lose, or get less than they should/deserve, before the process even begins, then I believe there would be a lot less kids growing up seeing their fathers a few days a month.

In my own experience, when people find out my custody situation (50%, week on week off with the kids) the majority of the time, man or woman, their response is "Oh thats so nice of your ex-wife to allow that!". Its absolutely maddening to confront that attitude, as I had to fight tooth and nail for months before she gave up her plans of getting full custody and moving clear across the country with our kids. In comparison to many of the stories here, my situation was 'easy'.

Do some women face the same situation that the majority of men seem to encounter when it comes to divorce? Absolutely. Do they start off believing that the system is against them and biased in favour of their former partner? Generally not.

Actual constructive advice on the project - If you were to do this, and focused on say 5 seperate situations, avoid gender biased language, but have one of those 5 be on a woman facing the same issues, or as close as you can find. It would help to reduce the sort of arguments and flames your seeing here already.

I don't personally believe that many women need to be shown they can get at least a fair outcome from the divorce system, but not showing a female perspective risks your message getting derailed by 'gender wars' which is exactly what's happening here.

[PeacefulMoments]

In my own experience, when people find out my custody situation (50%, week on week off with the kids) the majority of the time, man or woman, their response is "Oh thats so nice of your ex-wife to allow that!". Its absolutely maddening to confront that attitude, as I had to fight tooth and nail for months before she gave up her plans of getting full custody and moving clear across the country with our kids. In comparison to many of the stories here, my situation was 'easy'.

When my D agreed to 50/50, responses were like " oh, well, I guess if she doesn't really want to be a full time mom that's ok" and that sort of thing. The bias is there for sure and I think maybe some women feel like they will be looked down on if they don't have majority custody.

[LovingFather32]

Hopefully you include a section on the importance of not abusing your spouse... in front of your kid... on tape.

I guess you missed it. I'll catch you up. Tapes were edited, analyzed and laughed at. Then my ex admitted that there was no abuse....after she was told that if she didn't settle Id most likely achieve sole. We all caught up? Awesome!
(I had to deal with false accusations for so long. The most traumatic thing a parent can go through. All found false, Im moving on, allegations thrown out ... and I STILL have abusive personalities here slinging accusations. Boggles my mind.

Was your ex and child okay after the abuse they endured from you? That's what your ex reported right? Am I to conclude it's true just because she said?

I urge you to keep talking. It's quite amusing, especially to anyone whose been through it.

I know .. The most painful times of my entire life has made you and your sidekick S&T happy and amused. (Kind of scary actually). Guess everybody has to get their kicks somehow.

Just focus on positive things and practice concentrating on other's strengths .. not their weaknesses. Things will get better for you ONDaddy .. I promise.

[LovingFather32]

Not about genders .. its about information

While public perception on it is changing, if extremely slowly, the reality is, when faced with the prospect of divorce, spousal support, child support, and child custody, men believe,they have an uphill battle when it comes to these things, and that they don't have much of a chance. Resulting in many not even trying to fight it, though that is just a personal observation.

Pretty much nailed it. We have prescribed gender roles from birth and many gender rules til this day are archaic and primitive.

One example .. I now get 50% of all child tax benefits, etc. I called CRA and spoke with a nice lady. I was surprised to learn that if I had a common law partner that she's AUTOMATICALLY considered the nurturer of the kids and home and my check CANNOT go to me ... has to be deposited in to her account, when D4 is not even her daughter and I cover all expenses for her etc. This is just one example. Even the lady on the phone said the laws need to change.

If men weren't convinced that they were going to lose, or get less than they should/deserve, before the process even begins, then I believe there would be a lot less kids growing up seeing their fathers a few days a month.

Correct .. and we do feel beaten down, financially drained, etc. Especially if we're up against a team of Legal Aid, counselors, etc. and working a FT job. Men need to be rid of the perception that we won't gain any custodial ground because we're male.

I don't personally believe that many women need to be shown they can get at least a fair outcome from the divorce system, but not showing a female perspective risks your message getting derailed by 'gender wars' which is exactly what's happening here.

I agree. I don't see any protests by males on threads like "How to get help for domestic violence for women". And why would we?

I've noticed that the same posters that scream "Conspiracy" are the ones that start it. I can say that I'm unhappy about not having a say for shelter counseling and 3 or 4 posters will translate that in to I hate all women's shelters and they should be shut down.

This shouldn't be a gender war. I think it's because Links has a cut throat way of speaking .. and he's got a few other threads about guys like Ganesh (or whatever his name is) who may or may not have abused women.

In the end .. a documentary to help fathers would be no less beneficial than a documentary for women on how to escape domestic violence and build a case to prove it.

This is not a gender thing IMO .. but a service that could actually help some ppl out.

[LovingFather32]

When my D agreed to 50/50, responses were like " oh, well, I guess if she doesn't really want to be a full time mom that's ok" and that sort of thing. The bias is there for sure and I think maybe some women feel like they will be looked down on if they don't have majority custody.

SMART post!!!

PM has a great point here. (Grandma rocks!!)

Again with the prescribed gender roles. Do females feel like less of a mother/parent when they give up 50% of their time and custody? Even if they do .. can we blame them? I don't think we can. Mother's carry the kids in their belly, breastfeed and historically have been the primary everything for the kids.

I think both genders are struggling with the new social construct of parenting after divorce/separation. It's tough times for both genders for sure! Good post PM.

[arabian]

There are many issues for women as well. When I started on my divorce journey I encountered some pretty ridiculous situations. My ex and I were equal partners in an incorporated business (trucking - large semis). My ex, upon his declaring personal bankruptcy, was no longer legally eligible to be a director in any incorporated company including ours. (This is part of the Bankruptcy and Insolvency Act). To my absolute horror and despair I was unable to dispose of equipment and pay company debt even though I was the last remaining director (President) of the company. I had to wait 6 months before a judge made an Order. Even with that Order I encountered plenty of difficulty. My ex managed to hoodwink a Crown Prosecutor, after he was charged by police for theft over 5000.00, and I was unable to prevent ex from disposing some equipment. Crown Prosecutor's response to me was: this is a matter for family court! My lesson to any woman contemplating going into business with her husband is simple: don't do it. I seriously doubt that a man who found himself in my situation would have the same problem. When 'shit hits the fan' even the law will not help you. In order to recoup something I had to hire someone to take the equipment to auction as I certainly don't know how to drive anything other than a car. This, in itself, was quite a feat as my ex was well known. I ended up finding someone who agreed to do it if they could be in disguise. Seriously. When arranging for equipment to be auctioned off I encountered rudeness and derision from the auction place because it was "perceived" that I was a gold-digging ex.

I still encounter a perverse attitude from people today who assume that, because I receive Spousal Support, that I am a leach. I lost EVERYTHING. SS will NEVER come close to paying me what I lost. I invested more into our business (5 times over) than my ex ever did.

I am older than most of you and I do remember a time when a woman couldn't get her own credit card if she was married, without her husband's permission. I encountered some difficulties immediately after separation. Having been married for 30 years we had our vehicle insurance at one place and it was always under my husband's name. The insurance people KNEW I was a partner in the business. When it came time to change I had difficulty with this FROM THE WOMEN in the office. As soon as I spoke with the owner things were quickly resolved.

Regarding the whole ugly part of domestic violence... I think there is most definitely a need for a men's legal help hotline or something. Women have the government Status of Women and I don't see why something isn't out there for men. Men do need a voice to ensure that there are progressive changes to ensure their parenting rights.

http://www.swc-cfc.gc.ca/index-en.html

[Links17]

There are already documentaries about the divorce industry - I didn't watch it but somebody mentioned one here already....

I don't care about women's challenges in divorce - the entire system is basically built around catering the needs of women. All you have to do is file for divorce and the system take's care of you, no education needed.

Practically speaking, men are simply the input - women and children are victors.

The goal is to teach men that there is a light at the end of the tunnel and show the stories of men that succeeded even in the face of overwhelming odds and systemic injustice...

At the end you can have your family, your money and gotten rid of the trash - the sooner the better so you can go on reaching higher.

[Gooddadbadbreak]

There are already documentaries about the divorce industry - I didn't watch it but somebody mentioned one here already....

I don't care about women's challenges in divorce - the entire system is basically built around catering the needs of women. All you have to do is file for divorce and the system take's care of you, no education needed.

Practically speaking, men are simply the input - women and children are victors.

The goal is to teach men that there is a light at the end of the tunnel and show the stories of men that succeeded even in the face of overwhelming odds and systemic injustice...

At the end you can have your family, your money and gotten rid of the trash - the sooner the better so you can go on reaching higher.

I agree with you Links17

My ex put on an award winning performance in front of the judge!
Then brainwashed my kid.

Sucks to be a man in the legal system

[Links17]

I agree with you Links17

My ex put on an award winning performance in front of the judge!
Then brainwashed my kid.

Sucks to be a man in the legal system

That's why you need and assessment done.

[Headwaters1]

Rather than a documentary I'd rather see a Class Action Suit against legal aid.

Specifically to change their ability to side step any liability associated with any case they pursue. They help fund absolutely ludicurious cases through to trial forcing respondents to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars. Then when the cases fail, the judge looks over at the applicant and says "hmmm this woman can't afford to pay these costs". But legal aid is off the hook as well.

Let's sue.

[FaithandMorals]

I sort of have an idea for a few fathers here who successfully slew the family law monster be interviewed for a documentary to give other fathers tips about how there is hope of they play ball and play smart....

LF32, PlainNamed, WorkingDad and myself... It has to be people I think who were in conflictual situations and came up on top.... I wonder if we need "victories" where the moms were not crazy though... hmmm

Are there any guys who litigated but the mothers were NOT crazy and won shared custody?

I wonder if the act of fighting against shared custody in itself is an act of lunacy?

I think it is great that you compare your conflict with WorkingDad.