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  • Alienation

    I thought Id put this in here just from some of the comments people have made and maybe to help a little. A few people have been claiming alienation, my partner is alienated and I was an alienated kid.

    Theres a really good book I read last year called A Family's Heartbreak and its by Mike Jeffries. Its a dads perspective on the whole thing. Ive read a few psychology books and Ive been through years of therapy myself. Last year I sent my partner for therapy to deal with what hes going through with his kids. Reading that book really showed me the non medical side of things.

    I have to remind everyone: alienation is not normally a decision of the kids. They are heavily influenced to behave this way. Its either subtle or its blatant. For me, not speaking to my father was a condition of living at home. At 14, what do you do? I didnt know there were supports or agencies that I could go to. Plus I had siblings at home who I didnt want to leave. I finally reconnected with my father four years ago. 20 years after he left us.

    Do not be angry with your kids. Try everything you can to stay connected. If they are young enough, enforce your access orders. If they are too old, keep trying. They are confused and hurt and angry. They are also getting one side of the story. That doesnt mean you should tell them "hey your other parent is an asshole" it means remind them you love them, you are there for them, you want to be a part of their lives.

    My partner was told last summer he needs to set healthy boundaries with his kids. He needs to not let them take advantage of him or try to manipulate him into doing what they want. I can tell you the last year has been difficult but he recognizes that he cannot encourage unhealthy behaviours in his kids. Hes gotten stronger. He still misses them desperately and would do anything to hear their voices. Yet he also recognizes when he is being manipulated and will not engage. Its like a hostage situation. Its unfair and unhealthy.

    I guess my bottom line is dont give up. Dont cast aside your kids because they are being cruel or say goodbye. In this day and age there are many ways to reach them. Back when it was me, my father had to endure us screaming stuff at him and hanging up the phone. It may get better, it may not, but when theyre older and away from the influence they will have a clearer head and then they can see all the emails texts cards calls etc that you sent to get through to them. And dont be afraid to seek out supports for yourself. There are many different support services out there for these types of situations. Call Family Services or even CAS in your area. My partner abhors therapy. After two sessions he found talking about something he thought he deserved helped him understand why it was wrong. Divorce doesnt mean someone gets to take your kids away. You didnt divorce your kids. Dont be ashamed of what is happening. Its not your fault and its definitely not your kids' fault. Remember not to punish them for a situation that is out of their control.

  • #2
    Thanks rockscan, this is very helpful to read. I'm not dealing with alienation (thank God), but my partner is. He's got two alienated teenage kids. One of them is coming around, as a result of his being patient and consistent, and I'm optimistic they'll be able to repair their relationship.

    The other kid is a much tougher case - won't talk to his father, expects money but refuses to communicate. Partner is torn between being angry with Kid #2's hostile and passive-aggressive behavior (echoes of the ex), and being angry with himself for being angry with Kid #2. And of course, the whole "what did I do wrong to make my kids treat me this way?". It's a sad mess.

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    • #3
      I have trouble watching my partner go through it based on my knowledge and also because I see how this kills him. I put my foot down last summer because I couldnt take the raging screaming matches he and his oldest would have (after she hung up he would take out his rage on me or his belongings--screaming, snapping, being an ass). Funny how she has her dads stubborn streak! Now his youngest wont speak to him because he refused to tolerate her behaviour before the holidays and then when she rudely demanded money (for the third time in six months). It breaks my heart knowing that the biggest part of the problem is this desire on the part of the ex to punish him. I keep reminding him the kids will see it one day and what they do with it is their business.

      His therapist was truly amazing though. This is a man who would lose his mind during repeated goading from his kids. Within 5 mins of a call he would end up enraged and upset--exactly the "monster" the ex painted him as. Now he calmly changes the subject or firmly says "no thats not up for discussion" or reminds the kids of his boundaries. Now the response is "I dont know how to talk to you anymore" to which he says "respectfully is nice". The oldest is constantly telling him she struggles to understand how he can be so happy or how he and I can work together or what I see in him when he was such a horrible husband to her mother. Im hoping when she is in an adult relationship herself she will understand that partnerships are 50/50, not one person controlling and belittling the other.

      I have a friend who does alienation counseling for CAS. She and her ex have one of those "unicorn" relationships where they can actually work together in the best interest of the kids. They may not always agree or like each other, but their kids come first.

      We'll see how things turn out for my partner. He has teenage girls. Thats 150% drama right there. Add in their expectations for what they should be entitled to and also the drama from their mother and youve got a perfect storm. He has learned the hard way he cant parent from several hours away and he cant make them do what he wants. He also makes sure they know they cannot treat him badly and then extort something out of him. Im sure years from now when they are a little more mature they can talk about things and he can tell them his feelings. For now he remembers he cannot condone inappropriate behaviour or treatment to have them in his life. Kids dont control parents. If you let them, youre not raising healthy kids.

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      • #4
        It's a good thing the family law system take this seriously and deals with it. In every case you mentioned the alienator has gotten penalized!

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Links17 View Post
          It's a good thing the family law system take this seriously and deals with it. In every case you mentioned the alienator has gotten penalized!
          So far, I never heard that child abuser (alienator) got really penalized except in one case where mother went from sole custody to something like EOW or maybe even supervised, I can't remember. I think one of the reasons is because it is very hard to prove. Also, PA or PA syndrome is something new that people started to challenge. My friend who is 30 said she was alienated by her father to the point that in her adulthood she ended up seeking psychological help. Her mother has done nothing about it despite their lenghtly child custody battle.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by The Iceberg View Post
            So far, I never heard that child abuser (alienator) got really penalized except in one case where mother went from sole custody to something like EOW or maybe even supervised, I can't remember. I think one of the reasons is because it is very hard to prove. Also, PA or PA syndrome is something new that people started to challenge. My friend who is 30 said she was alienated by her father to the point that in her adulthood she ended up seeking psychological help. Her mother has done nothing about it despite their lenghtly child custody battle.
            You mean her punishment was what dads get by default?
            You don't say...

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Links17 View Post
              You mean her punishment was what dads get by default?
              You don't say...
              what would a dad get by default......

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              • #8
                Rockscan, this post rocks. Thank you,

                While searching online for that book, I also found a website by that name with many resources as well as a FB page. I would post the link, but not sure if I'm allowed.

                Thank you for reminding me that it's not the kids fault. I am so frustrated with this situation and reading your post re-enforces that I'm doing the right thing. I only hope that kids realize it one day too.

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                • #9
                  If any one know which psychologist in town can do the report when she/he therapy the child who is being alienated by one of parent?

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                  • #10
                    Alienation is a grey area, it will be good to know what type of action, word consider alienation

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