Ottawa Divorce .com Forums


User CP

New posts

Advertising

  Ottawa Divorce .com Forums > Main Category > General Chat

General Chat This forum is for discussing anything that doesn't fit into another forum, or for discussing things that are off topic, or just for general venting.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 04-09-2018, 09:13 AM
ensorcelled ensorcelled is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 150
ensorcelled has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Default The Case for Marriage

Bonjour!

Not sure if everyone east of Québec knows Anne France Goldwater but she's a family lawyer in Montréal who has a podcast with her kids:

http://thegoldwaters.libsyn.com/epis...e-for-marriage

She's taken on some high profile cases in the past (Eric vs. Lola, gay marriage in 2002) so she might be familiar with some but if not, I highly suggest you check out this podcast. Despite having 1 marriage and 2 common law relationships fail AND having seen the nasty side of Family Law for 30+ years, she still believes in marriage which kind of blew me away.

I often wonder if I would ever get married again (usually verging on 'hell nah!!') but the fact that she's not jaded, and my parents fairly turbulent marriage which has kind of settled down now nicely makes me think she may be onto something.

Woudl love to know your thoughts! Give it a listen if you have time..
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-09-2018, 01:22 PM
Janus's Avatar
Janus Janus is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,590
Janus will become famous soon enough
Default

I don't really listen to videos of people talking, or audio versions thereof.


Is there a transcript? I'll read it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ensorcelled View Post
I often wonder if I would ever get married again

As a woman, why would you not want to get married? If you lived together without getting married, how would that help?


For guys, getting married to somebody in a lower income bracket is nuts. I have relationships, but nobody is living with me unless they have a good job and we sign a massive premarital contract that basically says "no SS for any reason whatsoever, no exceptions". I will then go on to list every possible reason that I can think of. Eg. medical, accidents, disability, disease, injury, mental illness, poor economy, etc. etc. etc..
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-09-2018, 05:12 PM
ensorcelled ensorcelled is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 150
ensorcelled has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Janus View Post
I don't really listen to videos of people talking, or audio versions thereof.


Is there a transcript? I'll read it.





As a woman, why would you not want to get married? If you lived together without getting married, how would that help?


For guys, getting married to somebody in a lower income bracket is nuts. I have relationships, but nobody is living with me unless they have a good job and we sign a massive premarital contract that basically says "no SS for any reason whatsoever, no exceptions". I will then go on to list every possible reason that I can think of. Eg. medical, accidents, disability, disease, injury, mental illness, poor economy, etc. etc. etc..
They actually discuss all that at length.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-10-2018, 09:12 AM
Janus's Avatar
Janus Janus is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,590
Janus will become famous soon enough
Default

So, I'm not going to watch the video. Summarize the answer! As far as I can tell, marriage creates rights for women, and obligations for men. Therefore, women should generally want to get married, and men should generally not want to get married.


There are obvious exceptions, but for the vast majority of men, getting married is a horrible mistake.


Conversely, for women, not getting married is a horrible mistake.


In a shocking result, it appears that women are more interested in marriage... go figure.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-10-2018, 11:10 AM
Rioe's Avatar
Rioe Rioe is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Ontario
Posts: 3,343
Rioe will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Janus View Post
So, I'm not going to watch the video. Summarize the answer! As far as I can tell, marriage creates rights for women, and obligations for men. Therefore, women should generally want to get married, and men should generally not want to get married.

There are obvious exceptions, but for the vast majority of men, getting married is a horrible mistake.

Conversely, for women, not getting married is a horrible mistake.

In a shocking result, it appears that women are more interested in marriage... go figure.

When I got married, it was a horrible mistake!


I can't imagine being willing to do that again. I can't imagine that any cohab-prenup type contract that would satisfy me would ever be upheld by a court if it was contested. Maybe if 'at-fault' came back into law, so that a breach of the contract on one side absolved the other side of all obligation.



I didn't listen to the podcast either. Not enough time in my life to devote to something I'm not interested in!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-10-2018, 11:21 AM
ensorcelled ensorcelled is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 150
ensorcelled has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Janus View Post
So, I'm not going to watch the video. Summarize the answer! As far as I can tell, marriage creates rights for women, and obligations for men. Therefore, women should generally want to get married, and men should generally not want to get married.


There are obvious exceptions, but for the vast majority of men, getting married is a horrible mistake.


Conversely, for women, not getting married is a horrible mistake.


In a shocking result, it appears that women are more interested in marriage... go figure.
They actually tear down those stereotypes quite nicely. Women who are married live shorter lives than single women, are more stressed out and are worse off financially after separation.

The one statistic that really sat with me was the idea that the pooling of expenses is 'split' upon separation, but the pooling of resources towards the children always falls more on the mother, even in shared parenting situations.

I know you purport to hate marriage but it's a good listen if you have time. I find it interesting that in Québec the trend is to marry 10-20 years after you have kids as a symbol of 'Hey! WE made it!' vs. a marker to start off your adult life .
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-10-2018, 11:37 AM
Tayken's Avatar
Tayken Tayken is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 6,820
Tayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant future
Default

Marriage is a religious construct that has been enshrined in law that is no longer necessary in 2018.

There literally is no "case for marriage" once "no-fault" divorce was introduced.

I disagree with the speaker on this subject matter.

Marriage disadvantages the higher income earner no matter what the gender, sexual orientation, race, religion, etc... is.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-10-2018, 01:50 PM
Janus's Avatar
Janus Janus is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,590
Janus will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ensorcelled View Post
Women who are married live shorter lives than single women

Wouldn't the more appropriate comparison be married vs. cohabitating women? Otherwise, you are just making the case for/against cohabitation, not marriage.




Quote:
are more stressed out and are worse off financially after separation.
Compared to what? Men? Single women? Over what timeframe?

Quote:
The one statistic that really sat with me was the idea that the pooling of expenses is 'split' upon separation, but the pooling of resources towards the children always falls more on the mother, even in shared parenting situations.
I don't understand the previous paragraph.

Quote:
I know you purport to hate marriage
I don't purport to hate marriage. I strongly hope that my daughters marry. I just don't think its such a good plan for a my son.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-10-2018, 02:51 PM
ensorcelled ensorcelled is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 150
ensorcelled has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tayken View Post
Marriage is a religious construct that has been enshrined in law that is no longer necessary in 2018.

There literally is no "case for marriage" once "no-fault" divorce was introduced.

I disagree with the speaker on this subject matter.

Marriage disadvantages the higher income earner no matter what the gender, sexual orientation, race, religion, etc... is.
She actually covers this - did you listen to the podcast?

Sorry to repeat myself if you did but her point was that if you do split up there is a more equitable division of assets as a married couple than common law (which she disagrees with, but that's the way the legal framework is).

As for the disadvantages - that's assuming you want parity all the time for all people everywhere. I actually think it's a good thing for one partner (no matter what the gender, sexual orientation, race, religion, etc) to lean back for a few years when the kids are small, or when the grandparents are ill, or when a child a a severe illness or whatever but that's assuming the family can take the financial hit.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-10-2018, 02:52 PM
ensorcelled ensorcelled is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 150
ensorcelled has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Janus View Post
Wouldn't the more appropriate comparison be married vs. cohabitating women? Otherwise, you are just making the case for/against cohabitation, not marriage.






Compared to what? Men? Single women? Over what timeframe?


I don't understand the previous paragraph.


I don't purport to hate marriage. I strongly hope that my daughters marry. I just don't think its such a good plan for a my son.
I think you should listen to the podcast instead of replying to posters. It would explain things better than I can.

Also? That last part is frightening. Is there a dowry involved?! Why would you say that?
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Case Law, Case Conference and Mediation Free-spirit Divorce & Family Law 5 09-30-2012 09:55 PM
Costs in Bad Faith mom2three Financial Issues 1 10-24-2011 04:19 PM
Postponing Case Conference frustrateddad1970 Divorce & Family Law 2 06-18-2011 11:38 AM
Case Conference Preparation - Questions Ontario Parenting Issues 4 01-17-2011 08:48 AM
No doc been served from Respondent for case conference nick2009 Divorce & Family Law 6 01-22-2010 07:38 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:07 AM.